Hatin' the RPGA? (Forked Thread: The real flaw of 3E/3.5E/OGL)

In which case a non-sanctioned house play really isn't organized play, is it?
If you are using the "free" adventures and reporting the event it is considered organized play but there is a caveat. This is a "home play" event.

You have the same thing that the OP in the original thread was complaining about- people running games using whatever WOTC, 3pp products, or house rules they choose to see fit which makes it difficult for people to know how the game is played at a particular table.

Events that are sanctioned for "home play" do not appear in the events calendar, so the only way that someone would end up at this table is if they were invited. If you were invited to a particular game, you probably would know the people involved and know what you are getting into.

Only in this case, the group the table in question just happen to belong to the RPGA and get bennies for a reported game.

Correct, but in this particular case the group is a closed game to begin with. You can do in a "home" game anything you want. Want to have flying monkeys as a character race, knock yourself out. There is no restriction on "home play" because it would be ridiculous to attempt to enforce. If your group chooses to report it then you get rewards.

In contrast, every other event (Retail, Gameday, Convention, etc.) do appear on the event calendar and are assumed to be open to all. Some specific events like the Worldwide Gamedays are specifically required to happen at a public venue, and must be open to the public.

If a particular group is sanctioning games incorrectly, how is this a problem with the entire organization?
 

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No constraints on your campaign. Zero.
If I intend for the home game to be fairly reported and credited I must accept RPGA limitations, however benevolent they may be. Yes? If I don't want or need the RPGA sanction because neither I nor my players want or need to port characters to conventions or other games VIA RPGA sanction, then I hardly need the RPGA for that either. If I don't need the RPGA as a source of adventures because I can come up with plenty of my own as well as draw from other sources then I don't need the RPGA for that. If I play for years at a time with the same players in the same campaign then I don't need the RPGA to find a game or players for a game.

I'm starting to get a vibe that it's just not acceptible that I NOT accept the RPGA as being the next sliced bread. I wonder if the ghost of Jimmy Hoffa will someday appear flanked by a vampiric longshoreman and an ogre teamster and tell me I HAVE to be a member before I can participate anymore. :) Again, I understand that other people love the RPGA and get great benefits from it, but is it really so politically incorrect to simply not care for the RPGA and not need it?
 

Events that are sanctioned for "home play" do not appear in the events calendar, so the only way that someone would end up at this table is if they were invited. If you were invited to a particular game, you probably would know the people involved and know what you are getting into.

Wrong. You might know someone, find out they play DND (or some other RPG), but that does not tell you how they play. The whole point of the orignal thread that spawned this one was that 3e and the OGL was a flaw, because it led to so much diversity in gameplay.

In the words of the OP from the original thread, "It makes the game less portable, as I can't join a different group in my home town, move to a different state and find a new group, or play a game at a convention and expect to find a similar experience as the games I am used to playing with my regular group."
"Therefore, the game is better off with an organized play model like RPGA where some governing body determines how the game is played. This brings us to organized(RPGA or otherwise), tournament and convention play. WotC has stated in plain language that organized/tournament/convention D&D is important to the brand... the organized games don't inherently resemble home games, as the system can be stretched to the point where it doesn't resemble the games being played at these events. "

People were taking issue with the idea that forcing the game into one wayism determined the RPGA or some other organization was best for the game than the diversity resulting from people customizing the game to what best fits them or that organized play, in general, was somehow better than non-RPGA play.


Correct, but in this particular case the group is a closed game to begin with. You can do in a "home" game anything you want. Want to have flying monkeys as a character race, knock yourself out. There is no restriction on "home play" because it would be ridiculous to attempt to enforce. If your group chooses to report it then you get rewards.

My point was that such home games are not organized events. So touting them as an example of RPGA play that allows you to play any way you want is a bit misleading as they are not organized and they are closed groups. It is something the organization deals with, because in your own words "it would be ridiculous to attempt to enforce".

In contrast, every other event (Retail, Gameday, Convention, etc.) do appear on the event calendar and are assumed to be open to all. Some specific events like the Worldwide Gamedays are specifically required to happen at a public venue, and must be open to the public.

Incuding sanctioned home events. However, sanctioned home events must be open, have a minimum (4) and maximum (6) of players or be invalidated (per general rules) and use Method 1 or 2 for character generation. Furthermore, they also have to allow the reward cards regardless of how the DM feels about them or a particular card. So, the requirement of having to include the reward cards alone means the DM cannot truly run how he or she chooses as a DM may not like a particular card or the cards in general and, yet, stll has to include them if a player brings them.

If a particular group is sanctioning games incorrectly, how is this a problem with the entire organization?

I never wrote that a group sanctioned a game incorrectly. My point was that the only game that truly allows one to run the game how they choose is a non-sanctioned home event with a closed group which is not sanctioned or organized play. It really has nothing to even do with RPGA organized play beyond getting bennies and being allowed to use modules so darjr touting it has zero restriction is disengenous.

The actual forms of organized play (including home play) which is the whole point of the RPGA actually place at least some restrictions on how the game is run and by being public means you have to deal with the "douchebag" player (or deal with paperwork as to why you ejected the person and their response sheet and any organizational drama that results).
 

I consider it an appealing aspect of RPGA that I have had the opportunity to play with such a diversity of people as I have, but I see how not choosing with whom to play (except as a play/don't play choice) could be a turnoff.

The mode of play is peculiar, giving a slightly skewed perception of 4E, I think. On the other hand, 4E strikes me as much better suited to it than previous games were.

As a purely practical matter, it is very easy to DM a scenario (love those 4E stat blocks). As a matter of personal preference, it can be a drag; I find it almost as much work as fun (was going to say "more work than fun", but on reflection I think I would do it again). That has partly to do with the RPGA format, and partly to do with 4E. I certainly would not want it to replace my home D&D campaign.
 

I've not particularly liked any of the gamers that were into RPGA play. Everything that they felt was important in an rpg was either of no interest to me or I actively disliked.

Playing RPGs is (to me) a social hobby, and therefore one should be playing with folks you like.

I don't think there's a lot of "hate" for the RPGA though. It seems to me like there's more love for the RPGA than dislike. And of course, a fair chunk of people in the middle that just don't care.

Personally, I don't care about the RPGA. Folks like it, so that's groovy. It gives the people that are into that style of play something to do. I get annoyed sometimes because I've felt for a long time that the RPGA and the people that like that style of play wield a dispporportionate amount of influence in terms of how the rules are written and treated, but... *shrug*... I can always discard/ignore stuff and if I can't find anyone to play with, I just quit playing D&D. No biggie.
 

I be hatin' the rpga.

The few people I met at the table were rude, wretched lame-o's.

They don't represent the entire rpga; but in a way they do every time they meet someone new.
 

I consider it an appealing aspect of RPGA that I have had the opportunity to play with such a diversity of people as I have, but I see how not choosing with whom to play (except as a play/don't play choice) could be a turnoff.

The mode of play is peculiar, giving a slightly skewed perception of 4E, I think. On the other hand, 4E strikes me as much better suited to it than previous games were.

As a purely practical matter, it is very easy to DM a scenario (love those 4E stat blocks). As a matter of personal preference, it can be a drag; I find it almost as much work as fun (was going to say "more work than fun", but on reflection I think I would do it again). That has partly to do with the RPGA format, and partly to do with 4E. I certainly would not want it to replace my home D&D campaign.

The mode of play IS peculiar, and it's not like home games. I love deep-immersion "fantasy simulation" games for my home stuff, where PCs acquire and manage land, titles, estates, etc. and really make their mark on the world. I prefer that style over the RPGA style, in fact.

I'd characterize RPGA play as almost uniformly combat heavy, but with extreme variance in the level of role-playing at any given table. The certs, treasure and item tracking procedures add to this peculiar feel, almost like playing the adventures is like visiting an amusement park attraction and then getting a badge proclaiming "I survived (adventure X)!"

That said, I really enjoy RPGA style play for some of the reasons you mentioned -- specifically, getting to play with and observe strangers' approach to the game, and having opportunities to make new friends. You'll run into some jerks and socially inept people, but you take the same risk going to a pro sports event or any other large public gathering. The play style is, IMO, inferior to the immersive quality of a good home game, but it's great for seeing a diversity of play styles and kicking monster butt with fellow D&Ders. I could never thrive on organized play alone, however. The necessity of adhering to proper reporting and reasonably uniform rules adjudication requires a devotion to the rules that lessens ad-hoc creativity, but I'd argue the RPGA is not the place for such creativity.

I would like to see the RPGA (and WotC, as its controlling interest) take a more direct and active role in attracting and retaining new, younger-generation DMs. I have yet to see a coherent marketing strategy to get the younger, geeky/creative set to log off of Xbox or WoW and play with us old geezers. ;)
 

I'm starting to get a vibe that it's just not acceptible that I NOT accept the RPGA as being the next sliced bread. I wonder if the ghost of Jimmy Hoffa will someday appear flanked by a vampiric longshoreman and an ogre teamster and tell me I HAVE to be a member before I can participate anymore. :) Again, I understand that other people love the RPGA and get great benefits from it, but is it really so politically incorrect to simply not care for the RPGA and not need it?

No dude. Not at all. I like the RPGA and I'm just trying to set the record strait. You can use this wonderful resource in lots of different ways, including by running a campaign with no constraints.

That's all man. Don't want to like the RPGA, sure, fine.
 

It's interesting that a discussion about the OGL linked to the RPGA. I just listened to a rather old (2007) interview with Ryan Dancey on Fear the Boot (been listening to the old episodes that I missed) and one of the big things he wished he had done was push the RPGA much, much harder and broader than it had been. He wanted to see the RPGA hit a million members.

One wonders what this conversation would look like if this had happened.
 

It's interesting that a discussion about the OGL linked to the RPGA. I just listened to a rather old (2007) interview with Ryan Dancey on Fear the Boot (been listening to the old episodes that I missed) and one of the big things he wished he had done was push the RPGA much, much harder and broader than it had been. He wanted to see the RPGA hit a million members.

One wonders what this conversation would look like if this had happened.

One wonders indeed. I am pleased with the RPGA overall, but as I mentioned upthread, I'd like to see much more focused activity revolving around the idea of attracting young (like 16-21 yrs.), creative people to the hobby as DMs. Sort of like an RPGA-sponsored apprenticeship for new Dungeon Masters. The question of how to draw them away from the pixellated fantasy world and over to the tabletop world is a tough one, though. Parent gamers often get their children involved, but what about the huge untapped market of kids of non-RPG parents? If some marketing muscle was put into such an idea, I'd be curious to see how the RPGA's demographics would change over time. Based on purely observational/anecdotal evidence, it seems like the core membership is getting older, not younger.
 

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