Hatin' the RPGA? (Forked Thread: The real flaw of 3E/3.5E/OGL)

[Emirikol]

I've quit twice. I went back thinking that maybe the new edition may have brought in some maturity and ran a few games.. now I'm quit for good. There's one reason why I'm done with the RPGA: Theres at least one F(*&^%$ A%^&*() at EVERY table that ruins it perpetually for everyone. There is a culture of tolerance of the worst kind of gamers being allowed to remain. That's why I'm done.

Otherwise, I enjoy the adventures and I met a lot of really great people..but this "take all idiots" mentality of the RPGA is no longer worth my time.

jh


..

 

[Monkey Boy]

I'm not entirely sure those three examples are fair for you to single out. The 9 year old can learn better play, and as for the transvestite and guy with Aspberger... seriously dude. You may not want to play with them, but that doesn't mean they're dysfunctional or an example of something wrong with the RPGA. Arguably they are examples of something I admit the RPGA (as an organization) does well which is accept people who have difficulties elsewhere. I know there are dysfunctional people in the RPGA (they're one part of why I'm not a memeber), but I don't think they're fair examples.

Unless, of course, they were dysfunctional in addition to the listed characteristics, in which case why mention the cross-dressing or Aspberger syndrome instead of those issues?

More war stories? Ok here we go:

To be fair I admire the aspbergers chronic stutterer. He played a paladin face in a roleplay heavy module. He was well outside his comfort zone. Interparty and NPC interaction took about twice as long for obvious reasons.

In isolation this may have been fine but also at the table was our cross dresser who spent 10 minutes of game time shopping for dresses.

Adding to the mix at the table was a 9 year old Drizzt clone who wanted to fight everyone. He picked a fight with a matronly inn keeper who told him to mind his manners after he insulted her. In response to the dressing down he drew his twin scimitars and set his wolf onto her.

So out of a 120 minute session we had 10 minutes of dress shopping, 20 minutes of babysitting the 9 year old to try and keep the adventure on track, 20 minutes of listening to a guy stutter. Remind me why I'm paying money to play this?

Let me revise my earlier statement regarding hating the RPGA. I have had wretched play experiences with the local RPGA. This has coloured my view of the RPGA as a whole, possibly unfairly. I understand that 3 games is a poor sample size but am unwilling to play in further RPGA games to find out if I've just been unlucky.

I am left with the distinct impression that many gamers at these events would not get a game in other situations. I hope other RPGA events are not the sheltered workshops I've experienced.

 

[darjr]

Remind me why I'm paying money to play this?

What it a con? RPGA is free.

Anyway, there is a ban hammer of sorts. And starting up your own RPGA group isn't that hard.

And I agree with you, I don't think it's fair to paint the whole organization with such thick paint.

Was it a con? Badly run cons can be all kinds of not good.

I actually feel kinda bad you had such an experience. If your ever in my neck of the woods I'd like to try to make up for that.

 

[Monkey Boy]

The RPGA events were at a con. There was a nominal session fee to cover the cost of hiring the place on-top of a con registration fee. I agree RPGA membership is free.

 

[Beginning of the End]

I'm not entirely sure those three examples are fair for you to single out. The 9 year old can learn better play, and as for the transvestite and guy with Aspberger... seriously dude. You may not want to play with them, but that doesn't mean they're dysfunctional or an example of something wrong with the RPGA.

Actually, that is a problem with the RPGA: There's no quality control on the participants.

Openness and inclusion can also be good things, of course. But that doesn't eliminate the problem.

All right, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. However, I object (as would most of the players who've sat at my tables when I ran RPGA adventures) to the idea that the RPGA playstyle is "inherently crippled."

(...)

Care to offer any solutions to the specific problems you perceive in the RPGA's "inherently crippled" playstyle, or are you just going to criticize to hear yourself speak?

Would you prefer the terms "hobbled" or "limited"? The RPGA, by necessity, imposes limitations (particularly when it comes to the Living campaigns) on organized play which are not present in non-organized play. There's no way to "solve" those issues. Without the limitations, organized play is impossible.

Similarly, I don't think that Ford should start re-designing its cars based primarily on the input of drag racers.

This should not be terribly surprising to you.

 

[amysrevenge]

Similarly, I don't think that Ford should start re-designing its cars based primarily on the input of drag racers.

Taking the analogy one step farther:

I also don't think that Ford should completely ignore the input of drag racers, who can provide valuable stress-tests of engines and frames and such, that the normal driver would probably never experience or notice, but might need (a bit more desperately in the analogy I suppose) at some point in the future.

I think most of us can agree that *some* amount of input from the RPGA is a valuable resource that WotC would be foolish to throw away. We all have two subjective views in the process: 1) How much should they listen and 2) How much do they actually listen. I doubt that any two people posting here would agree on amounts for both.

I suspect that people who support the RPGA would say 1) Lots and 2) Some/ A Little, while the "haters" would answer 1) Little/none and 2) Lots.

 

[Stormtower]

@Beginning of the End: I think "limited" is a more appropriate term for how the necessary administrative elements of a Living campaign affect the play style of RPGA games. Seems a lot less invective than "inherently crippled," at least to me. I agree that home games offer more depth and creativity for off-the-path actions; how could one not?

Regarding quality control of players: there are formal grievance procedures for truly disruptive players. I have never seen these come into play, but the old (3.5 era) Master DM test really emphasized conflict resolution and adherence to the RPGA's table rules. In a public venue such as the RPGA, we all have a responsibility to model good, sporting, non-disruptive behavior for other gamers and transmit the good qualities of our hobby; how else will it grow outside the bounds of home games?

RPGA play surely isn't for everyone, and IMO home play is superior by far (given a few assumptions, like a quality group of players and a skilled, dedicated DM... but even these are subjectively defined). I've had great RPGA experiences as a player and DM, and some "eh" moments as well. I still believe the RPGA can be a boon to D&D culture and, with the right organizational acumen, become a vehicle by which new, young, creative gamers become the DMs and elite players of tomorrow.

 

[Dragonblade]

Ok, so this is an interesting thread. It seems a core complaint of the RPGA is disruptive players.

So are there RPGA DMing rules that prohibit the DM from stopping this behavior?

Going back to the examples of the cross dressing player, I would simply tell that player we aren't going to deal with your character dress shopping and if he didn't like it, I'd say he's welcome to leave the table.

Same thing with the 9 year old attacking the innkeeper. I'd just flat out disallow his action, tell him to grow up and move on. And if he didn't like that, I'd again tell him to leave the table.

Would I not be allowed to do that as an RPGA DM? Does the RPGA require DMs to indulge disruptive players to the detriment of the other players?

 

[SteveC]

I've been playing a lot of RPGA events since the launch of 4E, so I thought I'd make a couple comments:

First, I used to play living city events back in the 2E era, and I think a lot of the problems people have with the organization stem from that era. The current groups are really nothing like the old days.

The new Living Realms events are set up in a much better fashion: gone are the days of dicing off for magic items, and the certifications you get from one game really matter in another and serve to build on each other.

The new game is also an "everything's in" sort of atmosphere, so it's highlighted to me how balanced most parts of 4E are. The Battlerager is still broken (in my opinion) and after playing with one in several sessions, I feel like I have a much better feel on why they're not in my campaign.

What's best about the Living Realms is that it's managed to give me an appreciation for the Forgotten Realms, something I really hadn't had before now...I had seriously written them in the past.

Nothing's perfect, of course, but I've found it possible to get a decent group together most of the time, and the exposure I've had to different character and playstyles has been invaluable to me as a GM.

I'd really recommend giving it a try again if you haven't been back in a few years.

--Steve

 

[darjr]

Ok, so this is an interesting thread. It seems a core complaint of the RPGA is disruptive players.

So are there RPGA DMing rules that prohibit the DM from stopping this behavior?

Going back to the examples of the cross dressing player, I would simply tell that player we aren't going to deal with your character dress shopping and if he didn't like it, I'd say he's welcome to leave the table.

Same thing with the 9 year old attacking the innkeeper. I'd just flat out disallow his action, tell him to grow up and move on. And if he didn't like that, I'd again tell him to leave the table.

Would I not be allowed to do that as an RPGA DM? Does the RPGA require DMs to indulge disruptive players to the detriment of the other players?

As a DM you are allowed to make rulings of the kind and do not have to tollerate unsporting or disruptive behavior. Note that I'm NOT an RPGA authority. There are guidelines. RPGA Penalty Guidelines Though I think they are a bit out of date, I think there are changes to those.