have 3rd parties gotten the srd yet?

[Kunimatyu]

Seems like WotC may want to keep the 4E launch firmly about WotC, and it's hard to fault them for that. I can imagine a scenario in which 3rd party stuff isn't allow to be published until the Fall of next year, so WotC can maximize sales of their initial suite of products. I'm sure they don't want the waters muddied on day 1 with dozens of 3rd party products hitting the shelves alongside their books.

I'm MORE likely to get 4e quickly if I know that Tome of Horrors 4e is showing up within a month.

 

[Bacris]

I'm MORE likely to get 4e quickly if I know that Tome of Horrors 4e is showing up within a month.

Yup - much of my own gaming group has already said they're waiting to migrate until more books are out.

 

[Wolfspider]

Seems like WotC may want to keep the 4E launch firmly about WotC, and it's hard to fault them for that. I can imagine a scenario in which 3rd party stuff isn't allow to be published until the Fall of next year, so WotC can maximize sales of their initial suite of products. I'm sure they don't want the waters muddied on day 1 with dozens of 3rd party products hitting the shelves alongside their books.

If they adopt this strategy, then the new OLG will fail.

 

[catsclaw227]

I am feeling pretty comfortable that WOTC wants 3rd parties to sell products close to launch. This will only help sell more of the core books, and likely sell more of those core-bundles.

Oh, and Clark -- what level did you say Tegel Manor will be set for?

 

[FATDRAGONGAMES]

I'm MORE likely to get 4e quickly if I know that Tome of Horrors 4e is showing up within a month.

Yep, same here.

 

[TerraDave]

One practical problem: they still need to do outside playtests, and feed in those results. They may (will) reach a point where books are laid out, but will still be making changes based on playtest feed back. And they don't want to give 3rd parties SRD drafts that are not final.

I even wonder if the launched was delayed a month due to a slow role-out of playtesting.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Forgive my print publishing newbie question, but is there benefit in having 3rd party publishers actually time their releases together, and work together to combine printing overseas to save some $$ and get full color done cheaper because there are 3-5 different products being printed instead of 1?

Smart people ask questions. You don't need forgiveness.

I'm going to preface this by saying I don't have a ton of experience with print since Denizens of Avadnu was all I did. Not sure how many publishers have experience with color though (Paizo aside), since most products are black and white.

Anyhoo, when you order a print run of a product that is done on an offset printer (i.e. not from a laser printer like Print on Demand), a unique set of printing plates are created just for your particular job. So if I order a run of 2,000 copies of World of Violet Dawn and Necromancer decides to be stupid* like Inner Circle, go full color and order 8,000 copies of Tome of Horrors, there isn't really any savings as the printer creates unique plates for both products. Because Necromancer's order is bigger, they do get a HUGE discount with their run, but there is no real savings.

Now when it comes to shipping, they can put us both on the same boat and we can save money that way, but there really isn't a discount if we all get our stuff done at the same time. A lot of companies do coordinate printing jobs for shipping. That was a big thing when I was a member of the GPA and being carried by Impressions. I have no first hand knowledge, but I'm sure with gas prices being what they are publishers still do that sort of thing.

Hope that helps!

* - Just want to make a note and say that I don't think Clark and Necromancer are stupid at all. It's just an example folks!

 

[JVisgaitis]

How likely do you consider the delay being caused by WotC is still drafting new licenses? I mean like an OGL 2.0 license as well as the supersede to the d20 license, something that closes various holes (i.e. Book of Erotic Fantasy) except even more limiting then the past.

Extremely unlikely to almost zero. We didn't have a completed license when we had early access to the 3rd Edition material. There was an agreement written up called the Gentleman's Agreement that let us know what we could and could not use with the caveat that when the final license comes out, things can change. There is no need for them to finalize that sort of document for us to see the 4th Edition material. I'd imagine the arrangement this time will probably be exactly the same.

I would actually be EXTREMELY happy if the new SRD didn't contain all of the text of the rules verbatim and was just of list of what could and could not be used. That would allow Wizards to add new material to the SRD much more easily. I can get all I need by reading the book and through the DI. I know a lot of people will be miffed by me saying that as they want the rules for free. Oh well, as a publisher I'd rather see the SRD evolve through the entire cycle of 4th Edition and allow me to use mechanics from the II, III, and so on core books as they are developed. The SRD was never updated because it was a ton of work. This would make it much easier.

 

[JVisgaitis]

I'm sure they don't want the waters muddied on day 1 with dozens of 3rd party products hitting the shelves alongside their books.

The waters muddied? The whole point of the OGL is so Wizards can sell more Player's Handbooks. If I come out with an adventure and a campaign setting day one, how much does that help you when you don't have the Player's Handbook? The purpose of the OGL is to drive sales of the core books. I can assure you, there is no way they are afraid of any 3rd party publisher dipping into their sales.

One practical problem: they still need to do outside playtests, and feed in those results. They may (will) reach a point where books are laid out, but will still be making changes based on playtest feed back. And they don't want to give 3rd parties SRD drafts that are not final.

See my above post on SRD drafts. Thing is I don't need a full working system to start developing a product. I need to know how classes are changed, what races are in, how the whole per encounter balancing works. I don't care if they change this Feat from a +3 to a +1. I need to know the basic concepts of the game. The playtests rules would help IMMENSELY at this stage.

I even wonder if the launched was delayed a month due to a slow role-out of playtesting.

I dunno. I love the marketing spin they put on that though. Instead of people being outraged that the books will be delayed a month, they are rejoicing because everything comes out at the same time. Kudos to their marketing team for that one.

 

[Orcus]

Please understand when I discuss this stuff I am discussing my thoughts and feelings. I dont want anyone to think I am criticizing WotC--I'm not. I firmly believe they are working on this and are trying to get the stuff to us. I believe that. Because it isnt final, they just arent saying that yet. So I'm not complaining that I dont have it. I understand why I dont have it. I'm just laying out my thoughts and feelings for you about this and the process that we publishers go through

I have no inside info, I am just going off the fact that I know the guys and girls at WotC are good people, they love D&D, they want it to be successful and they support open gaming. All those things in my mind add up to them wanting to get the stuff to us. The only delay I can imagine is logistics and staffing--they are simply too busy to have gotten it done by now. I'm sure they wish that we third party guys had the stuff already so we would stop bugging them I feel for poor Scott Rouse. I think I account for 10% or more of his incoming email--"hey, is it ready yet?" I'm sure its about as exciting as being a parent and hearing "are we there yet dad?" I believe they want me to have it as much as I want to get it.

Clark