D&D 5E Have Scorching Ray and eldritch blast been nerfed somehow with charisma?

[CapnZapp]

P205 of the PHB. Combining magical effects. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine.

It is only one casting of the spell. Not four castings.

You said everything you need to solve this yourself. I have merely emphasized the relevant bits.

 

[CapnZapp]

And this rule doesn't apply to damage anyway. When you cast the same damage spell multiple times, you get the damage multiple times.

And this.

 

[CapnZapp]

I initially thought Agonizing Blast made eldritch blast too strong. After a lot of research and discussion, I decided that it doesn't. In fact, the way the warlock is designed it is important that they have such a high damage output. With it, warlock is a fairly balanced class. If you nerf it, the class can fall to a subpar status.

Also, it is worth noting that each blast does not hit at the same time. I think that was clarified in a tweet.

I agree with everything except the last bit.

Going down that route is a rabbit hole that doesn't lead anywhere.

Asking whether a spell like Eldritch Blast (or Magic Missile etc) hits simultaneously or not is a fallacy, because it suggests the outcome is different depending on the answer. It is not.

If all four blasts hit the same target, it takes four times the damage, four times the Charisma adder, and four times the push effect. Regardless of whether you apply them all at once or one at a time.

This is because it is only one single casting, and all the rules for spells not stacking talk about multiple spells (and not damage, and only conditions etc).

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The sorcerer affinity is something completely different. It is a feature that adds a bit of damage to some of your spells.

It is not meant to add four times as much benefit for one spell (Scorching Ray) than another (Firebolt) or a third (Fireball). In all cases, this feature adds only its ability modifier once. Equally to all spells.

This has nothing to do with how spells stack and does not stack.

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The poster is comparing apples and oranges.

The Warlock invocations change a spell, and only one spell at that. Its designer knows the spell in question, and I feel it is reasonable to assume he or she knew that you gain additional blasts as you rise in level. If the intent was to only give the riders to one/the first blast, the burden of proof would have to lie on writing that clearly.

The Sorcerer feature add to spells, and many different spells at that. Its designer treat all spells equally (as per clarified intent). Something very reasonable, and not something that reasonably needed to be spelled out.

There is no reason they should or must work alike.

Remember, 5th edition uses "natural language", not lawyer-speak. That is why it is reasonable to evaluate a paragraph using fuzzy subjective language such as "reasonable" above. (Trying to rules-lawyer a specific outcome will get you nowhere. Or, rather, I am rules-lawyering an outcome. I am just using the new toolbox and not the old obsolete one )

 

[flametitan]

The range is 90', and has a duration of 1 hour with a 1st level slot. You cast it as a bonus action before you move to cover/change lighting (possibly long before if someone is chasing you) and spend your action to hide. Invisibility is a 2nd level spell, and you can't hide on the same round it is cast.

You're still only able to target one creature. Everyone else will have normal wisdom. Unless you isolate your target from the view of everyone else, you're not better at hiding for using hex.

And warlocks don't care whether a spell is first level or second level once they get access to them.

 

[abirdcall]

You're still only able to target one creature. Everyone else will have normal wisdom. Unless you isolate your target from the view of everyone else, you're not better at hiding for using hex.

And warlocks don't care whether a spell is first level or second level once they get access to them.

It also doesn't matter that the range is 90'. If you can target the creature they can see you as you aren't being stealthy yet.

So you give yourself away, use one of two spell slots, so that later on you can be better at hiding against only one creature.

I'm not saying that Hex itself is bad, but these proposed uses for it are terrible.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Also, it is worth noting that each blast does not hit at the same time. I think that was clarified in a tweet.

I agree with everything except the last bit.

Going down that route is a rabbit hole that doesn't lead anywhere.

Asking whether a spell like Eldritch Blast (or Magic Missile etc) hits simultaneously or not is a fallacy, because it suggests the outcome is different depending on the answer. It is not.

It actually does matter, because if they hit at different times you can fire a couple, kill your opponent, then target the remaining ones at someone else. (Which is how it has been ruled to work, by the way).

I don't actually disagree with anything else you said, it was just a random point that does have relevance.

 

[mellored]

I think Hex is overrated. It uses one of your 2 spell slots on a concentration spell that just adds some damage. I don't think it is a mistake to take it, but it isn't mandatory. You're still going to fail concentration checks whether or not you take the Blade Pact.

Agonizing Blast is also only good after 5th level. Before then you have better things to spend your limited invocations on. +3 damage just isn't as good as at will silent image, extra hit points, rituals, etc.

After 5th level when it is basically +8 damage and you have more invocations, then it is much better.

Agreed on all counts.

Also, advantage from darkness + devils sight (or greater invisibility for arch fey) is going to do more damage than hex.
Or use suggestion, which can get someone to leave combat.
Or maybe a cloud of daggers in a doorway.
Or hypnotic pattern to shut a bunch of enemies down.


Hexes only wins if you can take advantage of it's longevity, and use some slots for other things like misty step, counter spell, or shatter. It's also got a few out of combat uses as well.



As for agonizing blast, it's every bolt and it needs to be every bolt. Warlocks are closer to 1/2 casters than full casters, maybe 3/4th casters, and need good at-will damage to supplement. This isn't fighter or barbarian level damage, it's rogues.

4d10+20 = 42 + spells.
1d8+10d6+5 = 44.5 + mobility, skills, and defensive features (reduce damage by 1/2, avoid fireballs, Wis saves).

 

[CapnZapp]

It actually does matter, because if they hit at different times you can fire a couple, kill your opponent, then target the remaining ones at someone else. (Which is how it has been ruled to work, by the way).

I can't immediately find it. Mearls, you said?

I only find a sage advice for repelling blast how it could blast you out of range.

 

[Inglorin]

It also doesn't matter that the range is 90'. If you can target the creature they can see you as you aren't being stealthy yet.

So you give yourself away, use one of two spell slots, so that later on you can be better at hiding against only one creature.

Hex is a bonus action to transfer to a new target. That is neither an attack nor a cast a spell action. Why should this invalidate my being Hidden? Why should the prosecutor be made aware of my mischief?

 

[abirdcall]

Hex is a bonus action to transfer to a new target. That is neither an attack nor a cast a spell action. Why should this invalidate my being Hidden? Why should the prosecutor be made aware of my mischief?

We were talking about casting the spell.

So is your position that Hex is a mandatory spell to take so that you can Hex one person to have disadvantage to detect you being hidden? Because that is where the conversation started. I think it is better to make you and up to 3 more party members (depending on your level) invisible.

All the prosecutor needs to do is inform the judge that they have been cursed. I am sure that will put a stop to the proceedings. Also, in order for any sort of large scale court system to work they need to have provisions against magic as well.

Hex is not mandatory for Warlocks. Warlocks have better things to do with their Concentration and few spell slots.