Have some books become 'definitive'?

[Dinkeldog]

In my group, R&RI is the definitive example of unbalanced books that get banned from the game.

I'd say Savage Species is pretty much the definitive book on how to break monsters down for use as PCs.

Masters of the Wild is the definitive example of what a classbook should be.

Edit: brainfart.

 

[DragonLancer]

In my group, R&RI is the definitive example of unbalanced books that get banned from the game.

Really? Your the first person I've seen yet to feel that way. What makes you say that? R&R2 I would agree with in places.

 

[Desdichado]

Other than the books named in the original post, I wouldn't call much of anything definitive.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Definitive Magic Book: Magic of Faerun.

Even if you're not running an FR campaign, this book still contains loads of useful new spells, magic items, PrCs, etc. It also has rules for things like mage-duels. Definately a recommended pickup.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Really? Your the first person I've seen yet to feel that way. What makes you say that? R&R2 I would agree with in places.

The paladin spells threw things over the edge. The vampire in Nightfang Spire was defeated with a single touch attack from the paladin to lay on hands.

 

[Nightfall]

Uhm well let's face it. How many Dms actually EXPECT their paladins to use their Lay on Hands to HURT undead? Anyone? (Btw still don't see Sacred Journey as THAT bad. I'll grant you that it upseting but if a paladin did that oh well. Tough luck.) (Not to mention there might be an OOA involved I'd say. Supernatural ability not with standing, that's still an unarmed attack.) Besides what truly SMART Vampire wouldn't have some positive energy protection of some sort?

Btw thanks to Psion and Dragonlancer for their support.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Really? Your the first person I've seen yet to feel that way. What makes you say that? R&R2 I would agree with in places.

Lots of people feel that.
I find it hard to believe that you have met lots of people who believe it is balanced.

Geoff.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Uhm well let's face it. How many Dms actually EXPECT their paladins to use their Lay on Hands to HURT undead? Anyone? (Btw still don't see Sacred Journey as THAT bad. I'll grant you that it upseting but if a paladin did that oh well. Tough luck.) (Not to mention there might be an OOA involved I'd say. Supernatural ability not with standing, that's still an unarmed attack.) Besides what truly SMART Vampire wouldn't have some positive energy protection of some sort?

Btw thanks to Psion and Dragonlancer for their support.

The paladin's charisma was 24 (+7), at what 13th level in that module, doubled. Touch attacks with a power enabled do not provoke an AOO, unarmed melee attacks do without the appropriate feats.

Then there's that other spell that let the paladin blind everyone that could see him except his allies.

Blech.

 

[Carnifex]

I will say that I found very little in R&R 1 to make it worthwhile, but then I don't game in the Scarred Lands. There were unbalanced things like Sacred Journey, but in general it was too specific to be 'definitive' for anything other than a Scarred Lands campaign.

There was good stuff in it of course. My beholderkin wizard PC finds the Dragon Breath spell to be very useful (I think that's my favourite spell in the book), but the poor eye tyrant is getting bad indigestion from the last time he swigged down the material component concoction

 

[Psion]

Uhm well let's face it. How many Dms actually EXPECT their paladins to use their Lay on Hands to HURT undead? Anyone?

The paladin in my old campaign did it like clockwork.