Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution modifier

[Dragonblade]

6 + Con mod hit points of healing would be piss-poor at high levels. Sure, they appear to have scaled hit points back, but healing 10 hp (18 Con) is nothing when you have ~100 at 20th level.

I suspect it'll be 6 + Con mod times/day, with a limit on how often you can use it. Most likely it'll be 1/encounter as a default ("second wind").

I agree with you most of the time, hong, but I think you are wrong here.

Your example of healing 10 hp at 20th level is mistaken. You would heal 6 + 4 (bonus from 18 Con) + 10 (1/2 level) for a total of 20 hp healed on a surge. And a 20th level Rogue with Con 18 would have 111 hp. 20 hp is almost 20% of that. That is a reasonable amount to heal on a surge.

I think healing surges will not be tied to any per day mechanic, other than perhaps second wind being usable once per day. But even then, I wouldn't be surprised if second wind is once per encounter, just not triggerable unless you are bloodied.

 

[Generico]

As has been stated, it's listed as "healing surges:", not "healing surge", which clearly denotes that this listing indicates a quantity. I think we still don't have any idea how much healing it actually does.

Also, I thought we already knew that second wind heals 1/4 your HP, like it does in SWSE.

 

[Christian]

So Healing Surge of 6 + Con modifier means that a Rogue 10 with a Con of 16 can heal 14 (3 + 5 + 6) hp on a healing surge and would have total HP of 60 (12+3+ (9 x 5) = 60).

Total hit points 73, actually. 1st-level hit points for a Rogue are 12 + Con, not 12 + Con bonus--this guy started with 28. (!) But it still looks reasonably effective to me--I don't think that healing surges are intended to represent a big chunk of your total HP.

Also, I thought we already knew that second wind heals 1/4 your HP, like it does in SWSE.

Well, we probably thought we knew a lot of things. It's been quite astonishing to me how much some ENWorld posters have managed to deduce from some very non-specific statements by the designers. I certainly don't remember any official statements from WOTC folks specifically stating this ...

 

[Dragonblade]

As has been stated, it's listed as "healing surges:", not "healing surge", which clearly denotes that this listing indicates a quantity. I think we still don't have any idea how much healing it actually does.

Also, I thought we already knew that second wind heals 1/4 your HP, like it does in SWSE.

There is no way its a per day quantity. So a 10th level rogue gets 10 healing surges per day? That just seems so clunky a mechanic and goes against the move away from the 15 minute adventuring day.

I think the term healing surges is plural only because its telling you that healing surges (with an "s") heal you 6 + Con modifier hp. In other words, healing surges are likely frequent and thus it is listed as "healing surges" and not "healing surge".

 

[Dragonblade]

Total hit points 73, actually. 1st-level hit points for a Rogue are 12 + Con, not 12 + Con bonus--this guy started with 28. (!) But it still looks reasonably effective to me--I don't think that healing surges are intended to represent a big chunk of your total HP.

Aha! Nice catch! My number for total hp in my examples are wrong. But I still stand by my theory on how healing surges will work in 4e.

 

[AllisterH]

There is no way its a per day quantity. So a 10th level rogue gets 10 healing surges per day? That just seems so clunky a mechanic and goes against the move away from the 15 minute adventuring day.

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Yeah, it basically becomes like the barbarian rage ability. Why bother tracking how many you have left since I can't envision needing that many healing surges in a day. Even by 5th level,you probably have enough healing surges that you wouldn't even need to track them.

 

[FadedC]

Currently there isn't much evidence that the +1/2 your level thing applies to anything other then skill checks (and certainly that's how it works in SWSE). I'm kind of assuming it's just a skill check thing myself and that things that refer to your stat modifier only refer to the base. But as always I could be completely wrong.

Either way I am very curious about what exactly a healing surge is. I suspect that the healing surge stat is relevent not just when you heal yourself with second wind or first aid, but also when you recieve magical healing from others.

 

[Oldtimer]

The term Con "modifier" in 4e means that you have your Con bonus plus 1/2 level added in. IMO, anyway.

That could be correct, but it only comes from the numbers on Pit Fiend and Spiked Devil cards. I don't think we are entirely convinced that those numbers are the ability modifiers (skill modifiers, yes, but not base ability modifiers).

There is one thing in favour of this thinking though - the lack of Con modifier on the hp/level entry for the rogue. There is no way you could combine scaling ability modifiers with Con modifying your hp/level. That would just become too weird. That the expected Con modifier was, rather surprisingly, missing from hp/level strengthens your argument.

Actually, come to think of it, so does the lack of influence on Trained skills from the Int bonus. Maybe you are onto something?

 

[kennew142]

As an aside, I'd personally like to see all per level concepts removed (here's looking at Action Points). The reason is that if we remove the per level concept, I, the DM, can determine the speed of level progression.

It's slightly off topic, but I've been using action points since they were introduced and I prefer a much slower rate of character advancement than the rules provide for. IMC, in each separate scenario/adventure, the characters' action points refresh a little. They never begin a scenario/adventure at less than 1/2 level action points.

That said, I would be just as happy if they became a per day resource in 4e.

 

[jhouse]

I believe "healing surges" to be the amount healed in a surge.

Under this theory, the per level change is 10% of the hit points gained. This means that at high levels, the healing surge approaches 10% of the character's hit points, washing out a large part of con-based effects.

I suspect this is "the math" at work. I believe healing surges to be per-encounter as well as triggered by other effects (such as a cleric with a critical hit). At low levels, a single healing surge is more significant, and at higher levels, it'll be less. I suspect that higher level abilities will grant more healing surges, so a reduced effect makes sense.

Additionally, a rogue is a striker. I expect their healing surges to be smaller. They need to get in, do their strike and get out.

I would not be surprised to see defenders with healing surge that's double a rogue's (12 + 2xcon mod)