Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution modifier

[WhatGravitas]

Yeah, it basically becomes like the barbarian rage ability. Why bother tracking how many you have left since I can't envision needing that many healing surges in a day. Even by 5th level,you probably have enough healing surges that you wouldn't even need to track them.

Not if a) healing surges are small (rather something like ~level x2 instead of 1/2 total hp), so you need them more often, and b) if healing is done by triggering healing surges... for example a CLW becomes 1x Healing Surge triggered, whereas a CCW is a 4x Healing Surges triggered - this can rack up fast.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Stogoe]

I really hate the 'X resource per level' idea, but it could be that. Perhaps it's 'per session' or 'per day'.

There's just no way that the number means 'hp regained' - far too low to be of any use. It's "Number of Healing Surges per Y time period".

 

[AllisterH]

Not if a) healing surges are small (rather something like ~level x2 instead of 1/2 total hp), so you need them more often, and b) if healing is done by triggering healing surges... for example a CLW becomes 1x Healing Surge triggered, whereas a CCW is a 4x Healing Surges triggered - this can rack up fast.

Cheers, LT.

That's an interesting idea....but given that 1/2 your level seems to apply to everything, wouldn't it make more sense that it would be

HP regained per Healing Surge = X (*OR+) Con modifier where X is standard for all classes or
HP regained per Healing Surge = X (*OR+) level/2

Then Second Wind = 1/2 your total (or current) healing surges to go with your idea of CLW/CCW especially given that the martial powers we saw the rogue have all seem to not lose effectiveness as you increase in level.

But then, how would you handle the HEAL spell (or is that even a spell, or has it become a ritual?)
Interesting....Looks like we'll have to wait for more information

 

[Dragonblade]

Further evidence to support my position on ability modifiers equaling stat bonus PLUS 1/2 level. Note the Spined Devil ability scores and the accompanying modifier:

Spined Devil - Level 6 Skirmisher
Medium Immortal Humanoid

INIT +5 SPD 5 FLY 7
Senses: nethersight, Perception +5
Resist Fire 20
ATTACKS: Melee 2 claws +9 vs AC each; 2d4+4
Spine Rain Standard, ranged 10; +9 Dex vs. Ref.
1d6+2 +2d6 fire AND Poisoned 5, Slowed while Poisoned.

SKILLS: Spot +10

AC 20, FORT 18, REF 18, WILL 18
HP/Bloodied 47/23

STR +7 (19), CON +5 (14), DEX +5 (15), INT +5 (15), WIS +5 (14), CHA +5 (15)

Notice how the ability modifier has 1/2 level added in? I think that is how skills and powers will work in 4e. This is how they "fixed" the math. Every power and skill based on an ability score will scale with level.

 

[Oldtimer]

Further evidence to support my position on ability modifiers equaling stat bonus PLUS 1/2 level. Note the Spined Devil ability scores and the accompanying modifier:



Notice how the ability modifier has 1/2 level added in? I think that is how skills and powers will work in 4e. This is how they "fixed" the math. Every power and skill based on an ability score will scale with level.

Yes, I did mention that in my post above. I also said that I don't think we are entirely convinced that those numbers are the ability modifiers (skill modifiers, yes, but not base ability modifiers). Mind you, I'm not entirely unconvinced either...

 

[Dragonblade]

Yes, I did mention that in my post above. I also said that I don't think we are entirely convinced that those numbers are the ability modifiers (skill modifiers, yes, but not base ability modifiers). Mind you, I'm not entirely unconvinced either...

And so you did!

Sorry, I missed that for some reason.

 

[Ulthwithian]

A couple of things I would to comment regarding this.

First, has anyone considered that powers that trigger Healing Surges might grant a bonus to the Surge? E.g., a Cleric power might give someone a Healing Surge + Cleric's Wis modifier. This would allow the surge to scale somewhat, with the side effect of making healing more Leader-dependent at higher levels.

Second, something that this makes clear is that Con is quite 'bad' for Rogues as a stackable stat. Obviously, we may not have all the info re: Con, but the inherent difference between the HP of any two equal-level Rogues will be the difference in their Con scores. As a thought, consider if this were the Fighter's:

HP at Level 1: 8 + 2x Con score

Or even:

HP at Level 1: 3x Con score

It would be interesting to see the differences you can do with this.

While I follow the argument that the Surges are the number of times you can trigger one... this more or less flies in the face of 'at will', 'encounter', and 'daily' effects, no? Why have a mechanic that requires this kind of tracking when you could do it better another way?

 

[arscott]

There is no way its a per day quantity. So a 10th level rogue gets 10 healing surges per day? That just seems so clunky a mechanic and goes against the move away from the 15 minute adventuring day.

It would go against the move away from the 15 minute day if you got just a few of them. But a first level character gets six or more, and probably gets another one every couple levels. So unless they're really weak, or he gets in really serious fights, then that extends the day well beyond 15 minutes.

 

[hong]

I agree with you most of the time, hong, but I think you are wrong here.

 

[Khaim]

While I follow the argument that the Surges are the number of times you can trigger one... this more or less flies in the face of 'at will', 'encounter', and 'daily' effects, no? Why have a mechanic that requires this kind of tracking when you could do it better another way?

That's really the big selling point, for me. While having a certain number of healing surges per X sort of makes sense, having that many does not. It seems much more likely that it's the amount healed. Sure, it's low, but so what? That just means a high-level rogue's healing surges aren't very good. I'm not sure why so many people have a problem with this idea. In contrast, a first level rogue with 12 Con regains a third of his HP. Not spectacular, but not terrible by any means.