D&D 5E Healing Surges, Hit Dice, Martial Healing, and Overnight recovery: Which ones do you like?

[Jester David]

Healing surges just seemed like an artificial way of getting PCs to full hitpoints before every encounter. It made martial and magical healing rather samey, so there was virtually no difference between a warlord and a cleric.
That likely made me more anti-martial-healing than anything.

The current Hit Dice healing seems like a nice compromise. It's not as much healing as healing surges and is tied to level, but it does give you some healing even without magic, increasing the workday.
I also enjoy that you can adjust the slider, determining how long it takes to heal. Personally, I'm going to use Hit Dice healing as all overnight healing, so you only regain HD and have to use those to heal, so it takes you a couple days of rest to get back to full.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Healing surges just seemed like an artificial way of getting PCs to full hitpoints before every encounter. It made martial and magical healing rather samey, so there was virtually no difference between a warlord and a cleric.

Except for their flavor of healing, their abilities, their proficiencies, their feat list, their Paragon path choices, their Epic Destiny choices, and their class features.

But yeah, they're exactly the same if you ignore everything that makes them different.

Even for healers they play completely differently. Cleric is closer to the magical healbot, with most of their abilities being on debuffs, buffs, and healing. Warlords have some healing, and then a lot of action-granting to act as more of a force multiplier party member.

 

[Ashkelon]

Healing surges just seemed like an artificial way of getting PCs to full hitpoints before every encounter. It made martial and magical healing rather samey, so there was virtually no difference between a warlord and a cleric.
That likely made me more anti-martial-healing than anything.

The current Hit Dice healing seems like a nice compromise. It's not as much healing as healing surges and is tied to level, but it does give you some healing even without magic, increasing the workday.
I also enjoy that you can adjust the slider, determining how long it takes to heal. Personally, I'm going to use Hit Dice healing as all overnight healing, so you only regain HD and have to use those to heal, so it takes you a couple days of rest to get back to full.

You do realize that HD are the exact same thing as surges except for the fact that you only get about half as many of them. Seriously, 4 surges = 100% of max HP, while all your HD = 100% of max HP.

HD are taking something simple and elegant like surges and making them horribly overcomplicated. I would much rather PCs get 3 + Con mod surges each day (and not have Con affect HP per level) and not have HD at all.

 

[Jester David]

Except for their flavor of healing, their abilities, their proficiencies, their feat list, their Paragon path choices, their Epic Destiny choices, and their class features.

But yeah, they're exactly the same if you ignore everything that makes them different.

Even for healers they play completely differently. Cleric is closer to the magical healbot, with most of their abilities being on debuffs, buffs, and healing. Warlords have some healing, and then a lot of action-granting to act as more of a force multiplier party member.

In terms of actual healing, there wasn't much difference. Surge+1d6. That was the healing class feature that all clerics and warlords got, that was the assumed mechanic.
So warlords could heal just as well as a cleric. They had to. For BALANCE!

Yes. You *could* take a whole lot of powers that changed the feel of the character and made a cleric or warlord play differently. Or not.
That's a little like saying the 3e sorcerer and wizard play completely different if they choose different spells. It's true, but it doesn't make the base classes less samey.

You do realize that HD are the exact same thing as surges except for the fact that you only get about half as many of them. Seriously, 4 surges = 100% of max HP, while all your HD = 100% of max HP.

HD are taking something simple and elegant like surges and making them horribly overcomplicated. I would much rather PCs get 3 + Con mod surges each day (and not have Con affect HP per level) and not have HD at all.

Overcomplicated? Yes, because rolling 1d8 and healing that much is sooooo much more complicated than taking your total hitpoints, dividing by 1/4, rounding down, and then healing that amount.

They're not quite the same as 4e characters typically had enough surges to heal to full twice. During an adventuring day, they had 300% health, while D&D5 characters likely have 200% health.
4e characters typically healed after every fight. It was almost assumed. Get bloodied, burn two surges, move on to the next fight. But the hour long short rest change that dynamic, making it something you do when seriously hurt. And having to roll makes it less precise.

There is undeniably an overlap between the two ideas. They're both mechanics designed to do the same thing: add extra healing during the day independant of class.
But healing surges were this weird cap on magical healing; there was no reason catching your breath between a fight should make the cleric unable to heal you. And that static nature of healing surges healing seemed forced, something to allow fighters to heal more than the wizard. And the name "hit dice" ties the mechanic closer to the history of the game. "Healing surge" just sounds off, deliberately action-based. Almost extreme. It fits the over-the-top action movie dynamic of 4th edition, but for those of us who don't want their D&D game sounding like a Mountain Dew commercial I'll take "hit dice".

 

[Mistwell]

You do realize that HD are the exact same thing as surges except for the fact that you only get about half as many of them.

I disagree, they are not the same thing.

First, anyone you can use a healing surge as second wind during combat, while not anyone can do that in 5e.
Second, you can spend healing surges after 5 minutes of rest, while you can only spend hit dice after one hour of rest.
Third, your quantity of healing surges depends on class, while your quantity of hit dice depends on level and not class.
Forth, a lot of powers, including healing powers, interact with and can trigger the expenditure of healing surges, both for healing and for other things during combat. Hit dice are (right now) for healing, out of combat.
Fifth healing surges heal a fixed amount of hit points based on your total hit points, while hit dice heal a random number of hit points based on your die used.
Sixth, some powers, races, and feats modify your healing surge value, while hit dice are fixed based on your class.
Seventh, you had more healing surges than you have hit dice, so you could easily heal-up after every combat with surges, while hit dice limit your resources more during the adventuring day.

The combination of these differences is significant. Definitely not the "same thing".

HD are taking something simple and elegant like surges and making them horribly overcomplicated. I would much rather PCs get 3 + Con mod surges each day (and not have Con affect HP per level) and not have HD at all.

I see it the opposite. Healing surges, to me, were WAY more complicated than hit dice. I suspect it's simply familiarity that bred comfort for surges. Hit dice being only used after a one hour rest, not modifying numbers based on all these races and feats and powers, not triggering based on all these exceptions in powers, it's to me a much easier and elegant system than surges. Surges became a mess of numbers, with only the "base" number ever being elegant and simple, but that base number disappeared in a sea of other "stuff" pretty quickly.

 

[tsadkiel]

Hit Dice aren't really healing surges, they're reserve hit points, which originated in Omega World, written by Jonathon Tweet, and were perhaps most prominently used in Iron Heroes, written by one M. Mearls.

 

[Hussar]

What's the difference between healing surges and reserve hit points?

 

[Mistwell]

Hit Dice aren't really healing surges, they're reserve hit points, which originated in Omega World, written by Jonathon Tweet, and were perhaps most prominently used in Iron Heroes, written by one M. Mearls.

Wow, I had never read that before. That's cool, I like that mechanic. And you're right, that does look like the origin of these Hit Dice.

 

[Mistwell]

What's the difference between healing surges and reserve hit points?

With the exception of the time frame for recovery (1/min vs. 1 hr rest) and fixed vs variable nature (1/min vs. rolling hit die), that question was already addressed above in the 7 points I mentioned.

 

[tsadkiel]

What's the difference between healing surges and reserve hit points?

Healing surges are a broad reworking of the healing system - healing scales based on the character receiving the healing, not the one performing the healing; healing surges act as a limit on the total amount you can get knocked down and get up again in a single adventuring day; and nearly every healing ability in the game either requires surges or references a character's surge value.

Reserve hit points (and 5E hit dice) are a way for characters to heal out of combat without having to rely on a dedicated healer. They generally cannot be accessed in combat, and almost no other rules reference them at all, meaning that the mechanic can easily be swapped in or out should the DM desire to do so. And they don't limit potential healing at all; clerics can keep healing you long after you've exhausted your personal reserves.

Personally I've had good experiences with both mechanics, but they do somewhat different things.