Healing Word

[Colmarr]

Only ranged and area attacks provoke. Burst or blast doesn't matter.

I believe the correct wording is that ranged and area powers provoke, but otherwise you're correct.

Which is important to note if your cleric plans on taking the level 6 utility power Bastion of Health. It's a ranged heal, so it provokes OAs.

 

[DracoSuave]

I believe the correct wording is that ranged and area powers provoke, but otherwise you're correct.

Actually, the correct wording is:

In one place: Ranged and Area powers provoke.
In another place: Ranged and Area attacks provoke.

Which is it?

Both.

Yes, there -are- Ranged and Area attacks that are not powers, and yes, there are Ranged and Area powers that are not attacks.

But, all of them provoke.

 

[Colmarr]

Yes, there -are- Ranged and Area attacks that aren't powers

I was aware of the duality (that both wordings were used), but I'm not aware of any ranged or area attacks that aren't powers.

Educate me (not that I doubt you; I'm just curious)?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I was aware of the duality (that both wordings were used), but I'm not aware of any ranged or area attacks that aren't powers.

Educate me (not that I doubt you; I'm just curious)?

Crucial is the word 'use', I think.

It's not "Ranged powers provoke"; it's "If you use a ranged power in a square adjacent..."

So a ranged power only provokes if you're adjacent to an enemy when you use it. When, over the course of a power's resolution, does one 'use a ranged power'?

Let's say I'm a Ranger with the 3rd level Encounter power Cut and Run.

I'm in square A. I shoot my bow. I shift to square B, I shift to square C, I shoot my bow again.

How many times did I use a ranged power? What square was I in when I used a ranged power? How many times did I make a ranged attack? What square was I in when I made a ranged attack?

-Hyp.

 

[Colmarr]

Wasn't it you who was arguing that using Nimble Strike (I hope that's the right name - the ranger encounter 1 that lets you shift before attacking) provokes OAs because it is a "Ranged" power? Perhaps not.

In any event, that wasn't my question. As I said, I'm aware of the duality and personally feel that it's one of those issues in the game that are better left to common sense than debating RAW (particularly if you're headed into "what does use mean?" territory).

I was more specifically interested in examples of ranged attacks that weren't a power.

Since asking the question, I have come up with some answers; specifically DMGp42 attacks and (possibly, depending on how you interpret the wording) attacks resulting from using alchemical items. There may be more.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Wasn't it you who was arguing that using Nimble Strike (I hope that's the right name - the ranger encounter 1 that lets you shift before attacking) provokes OAs because it is a "Ranged" power?

Absolutely. When you use the Ranged Power, you are adjacent. Then you shift 1, and make a Ranged Attack. The Shift occurs before the attack, but not before the use of the power.

That wasn't the most recent argument along those lines, though - the more recent was whether a power like Deft Strike with a melee weapon can be used if there is no target within the range (melee weapon) of the power when you use it.

I was more specifically interested in examples of ranged attacks that weren't a power.

In the Cut and Run example, it depends if you distinguish between "a ranged attack which is a power" and "a ranged attack which is made as part of the resolution of a power".

The ranged attack I make in square A is not the Cut and Run power, but it is the Cut and Run power that permits me to make the ranged attack in square A.

-Hyp.

 

[Colmarr]

I was mostly interested in attacks that were unconnected to powers at all.

There are IMO too many powers that feature "do X and attack" or "attack and do X" for a meaningful distinction to be drawn between attacks that are powers and attacks that are part of powers.

As I recently said to a friend about the Nimble Strike argument, "It's a valid RAW argument, and therefore one of the prime examples of why you sometimes have to say "Screw the RAW".

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, 'using a power' is a specific sort of action, and occurs when and while you take that action.

So, in Hypersmurf's example, you are using the Nimble Attack power at all points during that, as you are still using the 'Use a Power' action. However, if said power includes shifts and such, those shifts and such -explicitly- deny the interruption via opportunity actions during those shifts.

Hmmm. Ranged attack that isn't using a ranged power.

Flaming Sphere comes to mind immediately off the top of my head. The Sustain entry is not part of the Using a Power action, and Sustaining is not an action that provokes. However, it includes a ranged attack, and therefore provokes via -that- mechanism.

There are others, but this example is a -very- common one.

(Yes, it does involve a ranged power, but it does not involve the Use a Power action, which is what is important to realise here)

 

[Infiniti2000]

Absolutely. When you use the Ranged Power, you are adjacent. Then you shift 1, and make a Ranged Attack. The Shift occurs before the attack, but not before the use of the power.

So, does the power explain what is meant by a shift? Where are the rules on shifting? Now, once you look those up, which rules on provoking takes precedence during the shift?

I'd only agree with you if the power were complete in its description. But, it's not so we have to take all the details in context. I don't think the "ranged" keyword overrides the shift. It's certainly not the RAI, as is obvious from the design/inclusion of many such ranged powers.

 

[eamon]

So, does the power explain what is meant by a shift? Where are the rules on shifting? Now, once you look those up, which rules on provoking takes precedence during the shift?

I'd only agree with you if the power were complete in its description. But, it's not so we have to take all the details in context. I don't think the "ranged" keyword overrides the shift. It's certainly not the RAI, as is obvious from the design/inclusion of many such ranged powers.

Given the discussion in the Iron Armbands thread, I feel the need to point out that the only reason it's possible to make this kind of common sense ruling is because shifting and the powers in question have a clear intent/fluff - which is valuable in enabling differentiation between reasonable rule interactions and unreasonable interactions.