Healing

[Andalusian]

I don't like the idea that a lasting rest (6 hours) will cure you of all your wounds... Or, rather, I would like for a way to simulate real wounds (critical ?).

I had the same feeling as well. Healing surges I'm sort of cool with, but the idea that no matter how badly beat up you are, a 6 hour sleep will fix up all your wounds seems rather hard to rationalize. I know they're trying to make the parties less cleric-dependent and all, but this seems a bit too far. Unless they're using CON damage to simulate more significant forms of injury, or something along those lines.

 

[half-dragon dragon]

I suppose one could also make the "day" shorter or longer with relative ease by reducing or increasing the number of healing surges across the board. I will admit that I will still have to see it in action to see if its default setting is right for the group I play in.

As for the whole unrealistic healing to full hit points after an extended rest, the only thing I can say is that since hit points are now finally being described up front as the abstraction they've always been, when you regain your HP only a fraction of that is actual physical wounds healing. Also, at least for me, situations where your character's guts are sprayed out all over the dungeon floor are situations where that character is dead.

But then again, as each game is different, and HP means something different for each one as well, how magical or supernatural the healing over an extended rest is is left up to the individual DM and group. I suppose if it really matters, you could institute some form of restriction on how much you heal per extended rest, maybe even change it to something where a character only heals a certain number of hitpoints (equal to their healing surge?) per hour of complete rest or somesuch.

I just know that for me the complete heal after an extended rest means only a small amount of healing wounds and many more things such as recovering from exhaustion, recuperating from the mental stress of battle and conflict, and perhaps the most important, the light of a new day.

EDIT: Whoops, missed neceros' post, still stand by my view though...

 

[Phaezen]

The difference is in thematic hitpoints and blood and guts hitpoints.

When a character gets hit with an axe it's true that he may get scratched, cut and bleed. In whole, though, that character isn't going to be gutted. The only time he will have sever wounds should be during death strikes or more severe critical hits.

Most hitpoint damage, is in fact, attrition and being worn out. This is inherent in the thematic "movie" approach that generic hitpoints deliver.

This.

However here is a possible solution (with the rider that we still need to see the full ruleset and the quickplay rules being demoed this weekend might be slightly simplified)

Seperate the COn part of your 1st level Hps, record them seperately as wound points (WP). When you are damaged to 0 HPs you start taking WP damage. When you have taken WP damage you are wounded (-2 to all rolls, possibly loose one of your three actions a round). WP are recovered at the rate of 1 per day, 2 with longterm care. HPs are recovered normally seperately from WP.

Phaezen

 

[Plane Sailing]

Healing surges also neatly gets away (at last!) from the issue of how a CLW can completely fix a peasant but only repair a small amount of damage to a 10th level hero.

Now if basic healing triggers a 'healing surge' which will basically restore 25% of the targets hit points, it can have a consistently appropriate effect no matter who it is used on.

Me likey.

 

[Just Another User]

4e must have some kind of records for the number of house-rules created before the real rules were actually published.

 

[Aloïsius]

The difference is in thematic hitpoints and blood and guts hitpoints.

When a character gets hit with an axe it's true that he may get scratched, cut and bleed. In whole, though, that character isn't going to be gutted. The only time he will have sever wounds should be during death strikes or more severe critical hits.

Most hitpoint damage, is in fact, attrition and being worn out. This is inherent in the thematic "movie" approach that generic hitpoints deliver.

And we know that death strikes and severe critical hits DO happen. Those attacks can send you dying. If somehow you are stabilized, then "zboing!" you need just 6 hours of sleep to start jumping and springing again.
I do like second winds and healing surges, I do appreciate "cinematic" hit points. But I would like to have something for serious and critical wounds. Look at Frodo when he is stabbed by the nazgul : do you think the story would have been great if a mere 6 hours sleep would have erased it ?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Look at Frodo when he is stabbed by the nazgul : do you think the story would have been great if a mere 6 hours sleep would have erased it ?

Well, Frodo was stabbed by a Morgul blade that the greatest healer in the world couldn't quite cure, wasn't he? That's pretty much like a major curse and not just a wound.

How about looking at Frodo after he was stabbed by the troll in Moria? He recovered pretty quickly from that one

 

[KidSnide]

Because you don't get the extra 1d6+4 HP. Also, I get the feeling that the Heal skill lets you trigger healing surges only in unconscious characters, to wake them back up, essentially as though they had rolled to stabilize.

If you don't use the surge, the 1d6+4 isn't additional.

I agree with Dr. Awkward's reading of the rule. My concern is a little different. If a cleric can produce a "superior" healing surge (1/4 of your hp PLUS 1d6+Wis), then you can heal more hp/surge in battle than you can during a short rest.

Of course, this is only an issue if healing surges are in short supply. But, if the party is constrained by their allocation of healing surges, then it would make sense for them to have the party cleric to use his healing word over-and-over again (taking as may short rests they need). A character at 40% hp would probably be at 100% if he receives two healing words during the short rest, vs. 90% if he used two healing surges unaided.

It's not clear that this is a problem. (Do we really care that healing if more efficient if the PCs have a cleric and take extra time to use his abilities?) But it is a little weird.

 

[Just Another User]

Well, Frodo was stabbed by a Morgul blade that the greatest healer in the world couldn't quite cure, wasn't he? That's pretty much like a major curse and not just a wound.

How about looking at Frodo after he was stabbed by the troll in Moria? He recovered pretty quickly from that one

He was also wearing what was probably the best armor in all of the middle earth.
OK, maybe there are some powers that put some kind of "permanent" damage to pcs, but even so I don't like the idea that outisde of these powers a character is either dead or six hours away from full health, and I don't even liike that the the so called per day encounters can easily become 4/day encounter. They didn't fix the "15 minutes day" they just made days of six hours.

 

[HeinorNY]

The cleric could use his healing power, rest 5 minutes and use it again so the character healed make a better use of his healing surges, since they heal more when activated by the cleric's power.

SO it's not that the character can healed better by the cleric in battle than with a short rest, he can heal better with magical aid than with natural healing. It makes sense to me.

But if the character is out of healing surges, the cleric can't heal him anymore.

The only way to regain healing surges is with an extended rest.