Healing

[Lizard]

So you need a Paladin in every party? so they swapped needing a Cleric with needing a paladin so you won't die if you run out of surges hmm Okay.

Why *shouldn't* you die if you're out of surges?

Given how many things can trigger a heal, healing has to be controlled somehow. Surges seem to be that mechanism. Once you're out of reserves of "Get up and go", you have to rest. The paladin has the ability to channel some of his divine might into you even after your own will has faltered, but this drains *him*.

Assuming early interpretations are correct and all healing consumes a surge (yours or someone elses), the game is *better* balanced than 3x (can't believe I'm saying that), because you can't benefit from a wagonload of potions or a quiver of CLW wands. There's only so much healing you can get per day, total, and that's that. (A potion as something which triggers a surge, not something which contains magical heal juice, makes sense to me.)

 

[Minkster]

Yes but I've paid for that potion. It's different from a power that recharges every 5 minutes of resting.


You can drink a potion, or roll a 20 on your stabilizing check, or use a heal check to bring you up. If your players are "courageous" to keep going without healing surges, they better be prepared to die. Saying the character with 0 hp and no HS is hopeless is assuming on nothing.

Try not be so snarky here, it's not against the rules, but other members will eat you alive.
I'm a nice though

I was under the impression that all potions and wands gives you a use of your healing surge since there is no such thing as Cure light wounds then I would take that as there is no Potion of Cure light wounds. A heal check states it gives you a chance to use a healing surge so if you do not have any then you cannot use them. I am not trying to be snarky just trying to point out that this seems to not work as well you are still going to have to stop often. Everyone does not have the same amount of surges a fighter may have 10 but a wizard may have 4 he gets hit a couple of times and uses them in 2 combats then you still have to rest.

 

[TwoSix]

I was under the impression that all potions and wands gives you a use of your healing surge since there is no such thing as Cure light wounds then I would take that as there is no Potion of Cure light wounds. A heal check states it gives you a chance to use a healing surge so if you do not have any then you cannot use them. I am not trying to be snarky just trying to point out that this seems to not work as well you are still going to have to stop often. Everyone does not have the same amount of surges a fighter may have 10 but a wizard may have 4 he gets hit a couple of times and uses them in 2 combats then you still have to rest.

Yes, but in 3e you usually didn't stop because of hit points, you stopped because your cleric and wizard were out of spells. You can't rely on a wand of CLW for in-combat healing.

 

[HeinorNY]

I am not trying to be snarky just trying to point out that this seems to not work as well you are still going to have to stop often. Everyone does not have the same amount of surges a fighter may have 10 but a wizard may have 4 he gets hit a couple of times and uses them in 2 combats then you still have to rest.

It makes perfect senss that characters will need to stop for some real resting sometime right?
Also, the fighter is the defender, he needs more healing surges because he will get beaten more often. Probably the defender's HS will end before the wizard's.
It's all a feature, not a bug.

 

[Minkster]

Well when you start talking threat and Defender it sounds to me like they are trying to make it like a Hybrid MMORPG where one person gets the aggro and everyone else just blast it. I know my DM likes to go for Casters first and bypasses the "Tank" so my wizard would get beat on no matter what.

I just thought that the point of 4e was so you could go longer in a day than 3e but if the Healing surge mechanic is like I think it is then you are going to be limited about the same depending on Healing surges.

 

[HeinorNY]

they are trying to make it like a Hybrid MMORPG

You got it!

I just thought that the point of 4e was so you could go longer in a day than 3e but if the Healing surge mechanic is like I think it is then you are going to be limited about the same depending on Healing surges.

You can go longer in a day in 4e because you have at will powers and encounter powers. The HS are there to let everyone have some type of self healing mechanism = less dependance on the cleric. The better with the cleric of course.
In 3.5, regarding Hit Points, you could go all day long, fighting for days, all you need is a big bag full of healing potions.

 

[Ulthwithian]

While comparisons between game systems are not fool-proof, 4E is not the first system to use the idea of 'healing surges'. I know Earthdawn did, and they handled the 'healing potion' situation in both ways, actually.

1) You had 'Booster Potions' which allowed the use of a Healing Surge in combat, and gave a bonus. Without a Surge available, they were useless.

2) You had more expensive 'Healing Potions' which did the same, but gave a higher bonus and gave just the bonus if you were out of Surges.

I see no reason why 4E wouldn't use the same guidelines. While the Healing Prayer that the Cleric gets more or less allows for 'CLW Wand' shenanigans if it doesn't require a Surge, a Healing Potion that doesn't require one (but is much better if there is one) is consumed and thus less likely to be able to be abused.

 

[Aloïsius]

So how do you end up with a character that, barring magic, really does need days or a week or two weeks to recuperate? Does the game just not handle it? (We don't really know yet, obviously. But I bet a lot of people would be reassured to know it's been considered and handled, even if not how.)

In the absence of such a mechanic (and were I planning to play 4E), I'd create a house rule based on critical hits and hits causing unconsciousness. Maybe something as simple as "any damage that is caused by a critical hit, or that renders a PC unconscious, only heals at the rate of X points per three days, where X is the HP/level gained by the class."

That's what I want. Note that this was lacking in 3e as well, but the slower healing rate lessened this lack of real injury.

In the end, you either need a high fantasy background (PC are supernatural heroes that heal everything at light speed) or a house rule (some wounds are more than mere hit point loss).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Plain hit point damage seems to have little way to create lasting/permanent conditions on anyone (barring death).
It's possible that there will be special effects that still cause lasting conditions.

For people interesting in having some kind of lasting effects on damage, here's my house rule suggestion:
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4077290&postcount=21

Basically, Healing Surges become the new hit points and do not recover each day (assuming they do at the moment. I am not sure if that's already determined). Instead, you recover slowly. Healing Surges spent represent your damage.
For that house rule: Think of a character with hit point damage as someone covered with bruises and some blood. Only a closer inspection can reveal whether it had some lasting effect (= healing surge spent). The effect is (just as the damage) never enough to stop or hinder your regular adventuring capacities, but you better take care - you can't take much more of it...

 

[neceros]

Griveous injuries should be part of story mechanics and plot, and not something happening in a random basis.

Exactly.

In fourth, they've been saying they want to make it a bit more gritty in order to present the heroes as more heroic compared to third. If that's not enough for you please feel free to hamper your players by forcing them to receive realistic wounds in an unrealistic setting.

So long as you are having fun, what does it matter?