Hello and Welcome to Towards 5E

[LotusBlossom]

Just a quick note before I get to the crux of my point:
- I think the 1/2 level thing in 4E is mechanically sound, almost like a floating level that keeps everything synchronised as the party goes up levels. In terms of flavour though, I see a big disconnect. My niminy-piminy wizard who has never physically struck out at anything in his entire life gets a few levels and suddenly becomes a better fighter than the 1st level "hero" fighter, and better at avoiding blows (from this half class bonus to everything). This mechanic in fact was exactly the one I was thinking of when I said, "streamline for elegance, not to bash complexity into vague simplicity". In short, I think there are better (but slightly more complex) ways of dealing with this.

I like the +1/2 per level as well. Maybe we can limit the level bonuses to a set of core class/profession skills only. All the other secondary skills only carry the +5 bonus (or whatever) unless the PC 'buys' additional bonuses through feats or whatnot.

For the moment, the thing I see of benefit is standardizing DCs to a common scale - like the DCs on page 31 of the 3.5 DMG (and in fact, this seems to support the numbers of my exercise above). The weird thing is, 3.5 supplements seemed to get away from this standardizing - and I don't think it was ever made standard across all manner of DCs.

I don't have the 3.5 rule set, but standardizing the DCs sounds like a good goal.

I think it would be interesting to link the score and modifier in to the standardized DC system. For example if you had a dexterity score of 15 [a high dexterity], would this make it interesting to say that raw dex checks of DC 15 or less, you can automatically succeed? What does this say about a DC of 15? Does it fit in better with the DC scale above than the take 10/modifier option of a DC of 12 [10 plus +2 dex modifier]?

I suppose one of the funny things for me is something like the Strength check to break down a door (and a DC of 15). Our strong dwarf (STR 15) compared to our weak wizard (STR 8). The Dwarf has a 40% chance of knocking the door down. Our wizard has a 25% chance. This is just out of whack. It seems that if you used the scores as an auto success for an equivalent or lower DC, then this would fall into line. The question becomes, how would the Dwarf attempt to achieve a door with a DC of 20?

The example above does seem out of whack. If we can crack this nut, it might be the base for a very good system. We might need a different scale to get it to work properly (d100 or Xd6 with X being one's strength bonus), but a d20 would be preferable, since it's used for everything else.

I think one problem may be that the average person has 10 STR, yet an average mundane task is DC 1. DC 20 is considered something very hard for the average person, but easy for a Master (+20). However, a STR of 15 in regular DnD using the bell curve is very strong, with 18 being Master class. Maybe the PC stats could be adjusted so that the average person has a STR 0, and the stat value is the bonus. Thus a DC 15 door would be easy for a STR 15 character (d20+15) but hard for the average STR 0 character (d20+0). A STR 20 character would truly be a master class strongman.

Not sure if I like this, but it does seem to fix the DC problem.

 

[SteelCoyote]

I just stumbled across this thread and had a few questions:

What is the scope and scale of "5e"?

--Is it (in theory) the next step in the D&D game, meaning it has no or few mechanics in common with 4e (akin to moving from AD&D to 4e)?

--Or is it simply a modification of 4e (akin to House Rules) where we keep the same mechanics but alter them more for flavor than substance?

How limited are we?

--Tying in to the points above, are we limited to maintaining a class system, a level mechanic, "AC", and, the holiest of sacred cows, the d20 mechanic?

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I just stumbled across this thread and had a few questions:

What is the scope and scale of "5e"?

Hello and welcome.
While things have been a little inactive here over the past few weeks, I have been very busy processing ideas and writing an awful lot of relevant stuff, and I still check in pretty much every day or so to see if there is any new discussion. As for the scale of what this group hopes to achieve, at this stage it is in flux. I wrote the above ethos and charter as that was the ideal D&D for me personally. I think it hit a chord with some people because that was a how they wished to envisage D&D too. And so at this stage, it is a case of anything goes.

I am in the process of writing up a core document that people can refer to with suggestions, additions or if preferred deletions. This has taken me some time to do and I'm still only half way there.

--Is it (in theory) the next step in the D&D game, meaning it has no or few mechanics in common with 4e (akin to moving from AD&D to 4e)?

Sort of. I suppose the mechanics it has are the ones that mesh flavor, mechanic and playability the best. It's a case of lets see where this takes us rather than having a preconceived destination of being close to or further away from any particular former edition.

--Or is it simply a modification of 4e (akin to House Rules) where we keep the same mechanics but alter them more for flavor than substance?

4E has a lot to offer, but at the same time, it does a lot of things I don't like. Anyway, I would like this to be a lot more than just houserulling 4E.

How limited are we?

--Tying in to the points above, are we limited to maintaining a class system, a level mechanic, "AC", and, the holiest of sacred cows, the d20 mechanic?

Most certainly not. At this stage, I don't want to have any limitations to discussion.

However, one thing that I suppose I am building my ideas around is the splitting of hit points into hit points (damage taken) and combat points (skill, luck, resolve, will to continue, turning serious blows into less serious ones and so on). If you have a read of the hit point thread, this will give you an idea of where the core of my ideas are coming from. I also started a hit point discussion topic in the main forum on my ideas which may help - I'll have to edit in a link.

Anyway, any ideas you have are warmly welcome. I think I need to tend to this forum a little more so as to keep the ball rolling with everyone else.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise