D&D 5E Help Action? Most underrated rule?

[aramis erak]

That varies a lot. If I hit for d6+3 and someone else hits for d10+4, helping them is almost certainly a better choice. Furthermore, the chance of success might be significantly variable, too. If someone has a 50% chance to hit, help gives them a 75% chance to hit, so if I would be at least 25% likely to hit, I might be better off attacking. If someone has a 25% chance of hitting, advantage gives them a nearly-43% chance of hitting, which is a pretty noticeable improvement. It's a little under 20%, so if my damage is comparable, help won't be as good as just attacking. But if their damage is much better than mine, or my chance of hitting isn't even 25%? Yeah, help.

Also, can be worth it on things where there's a resource in the attack. Like, if someone's rolling to-hit with a non-cantrip spell, and I am in melee range of their target and can use help, then there's a significant cost for missing, and the help may well be very much worth it.

You're doing the math wrong.

If they have a 50%, and you help, yes, that's 75% * their damage.

If you have a 25% chance of hit, and they a 50%, your contribution effect is your damage * your hit chance and theirs is their damage.

So, taking the two sets of numbers... (d6+3, 25%) & (d10+4, 50%)... vs (d10+4,75%)...
that's (6.5*0.25) + (9.5*0.5) vs (9.5*0.75)
or (1.625)+(4.75)= 6.375 vs (7.125)
Even at 25% chance of hit... you're better off helping.

And that ignores crits.

Lets add the crits
({6.5*0.2}+{10*0.05})+({9.5*0.45}+{15*0.05}) vs ({9.5*0.7}+{15*0.05})
({1.3}+{0.5})+({4.275}+{0.75}) vs ({6.65}+{0.75})
(1.8)+(5.025) vs (7.5)
(6.825) vs (7.5)

 

[suden]

The help action can be very handy when for instance only one group member has a magic or silvered weapon vs. a lycanthrope.

 

[Grakarg]

Don't forget your Familiar!

Familiars can't use the attack action, but I believe they can use the help action (no books handy at work, please correct me if I'm wrong). That should be super useful since they don't normally contribute damage anyway.

 

[Rlyehable]

Also, the help action is good for helping a party member when they are at disadvantage on ability checks and/or saves (restrained, poisoned, etc.)

 

[pemerton]

two PC's attacking, help is disadvantageous because it reduces the average damage (due to not allowing 2 hits).

That varies a lot.

I agree with seebs.

You're doing the math wrong.

seebs's maths (or implied maths) is fine. Your worked example illustrates seebs's point, that if person A has a modest chance to hit for d6+3, and person B has a modest or better chance to hit for d10+4, then person A is better off helping B than attacking him-/herself.

The point was that this is a counter-example to your earlier claim that if two PCs are attacking, help reduces the average damage. As seebs said, this varies, depending on each of the two PCs' chances to hit and average damage.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

I wasn't familiar with this rule. Thank you!

 

[aramis erak]

I agree with seebs.

seebs's maths (or implied maths) is fine. Your worked example illustrates seebs's point, that if person A has a modest chance to hit for d6+3, and person B has a modest or better chance to hit for d10+4, then person A is better off helping B than attacking him-/herself.

The point was that this is a counter-example to your earlier claim that if two PCs are attacking, help reduces the average damage. As seebs said, this varies, depending on each of the two PCs' chances to hit and average damage.

His claim of 25% chance of hit being the point where it's better to do it oneself is wrong. It varies by damage, and it varies by the primary's chance of hit.

It always has to be adjust for damage on combat tasks.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Don't forget your Familiar!

Familiars can't use the attack action, but I believe they can use the help action (no books handy at work, please correct me if I'm wrong). That should be super useful since they don't normally contribute damage anyway.

Find Familiar: " A familiar can't attack, but can take other actions as normal."

Does using the help action in combat qualify as an attack? I think it does.

Help: "Alternately, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within five feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally's attack more effective."

 

[Rlyehable]

Find Familiar: " A familiar can't attack, but can take other actions as normal."

Does using the help action in combat qualify as an attack? I think it does.

Help: "Alternately, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within five feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally's attack more effective."

I would argue that the "can't attack" refers to the attack action. Thus, to me, it could use the help action (distract the target).

 

[painted_klown]

Interesting thoughts on Find Familiar. Reading over the spell, it seems like it would be crazy powerful in battle, and extremely useful as well.

I think I would rule that it's allowed to take the help action as with the limited # of choices of what the familiar can be, it couldn't really do anything like administer a potion (although delivering a touch spell for you is crazy good as well), so that would make it useful. Since the beasts in question are low CR, they could be easily dealt with by the enemies, if you were utilizing them in the battle. The casting time of 1 hr would keep this spell from being abused as well IMO.

Interesting discussion here gang...I like it!