D&D 5E Help Action? Most underrated rule?

[keterys]

Maybe. If you even notice it. There's a lot going on in combat, and tiny creatures aren't generally that loud. And it's not like this thing can physically hurt you, in any way, or try to grab your leg and prevent you from dodging.

Actually, it can. It has a highly poisonous stinger. Depending on the type of warlock, it might even be a good combat option at low level.

It's also a creature known for its ability to hinder, tamper, steal, torture, and murder things.

Not that the owl is really that much to sneeze at either, but the Chain Imp doesn't have the "cannot attack" limitation of the owl, so it is quite a bit more dangerous.

 

[Coredump]

Why should it be restricted? Why can't that owl keep twittering around the big bad monster's head? If the big bad monster is sick of it, it knows what it needs to do to stop that freakin' owl.

And why can't a sorcerer help the cleric by applying pressure, offering an extra set of hands to prep and cut bandages?

Being able to help someone perform a task does not automatically mean you can do enough to help them be successful, nor that to be so helpful as to give Advantage.

As it stands now, a bat familiar, and sorcerer with -1 wis, and a Paladin with +8 Medicine skill are all allowed to 'help' the cleric with his medicine check... and they are all automatically effective, and they all give the same bonus (advantage)

But why not look for reasonable ways PCs can help each other rather than assume they can't?

Because they have to be helpful enough to make a difference (and a pretty big difference). Personally, I could 'help' someone hunt for food.... the best way would be to stay in camp. Or I could 'help' someone with their singing performance, and it might help, but doubtful it would be enough to make much of a difference.

I am thinking of something *like* this:

If you are proficient in the skill being used, you can automatically help.
If you are not proficient, you need to pass a DCX check

Not sure if X should be a set number, or DM adjudicated, or based in initial DC. (So to help with the clerics DC 20 medicine check, the sorcerer needs to pass a DC 15 medicine check... or something like that.)

Now, that kinda goes against the 5E 'streamline' philosophy... I would probably prefer/settle for stating that the DM should have say on what just won't work.... no your bat familiar can't 'help' you research local history...



I admit, I just have a particular disdain for the owl familiar flyby 'help' tactic....

 

[billd91]

The imp is bordering on "the rules were never meant to cover this situation" territory.

Looks to me like the rules cover the situation just fine.

 

[Staffan]

I assumed that rule was a big reason WHY the Encounter XP multiplier gets high with a lot of foes. Especially with foes that get extra damage dice with allies nearby.

It's more that fighting lots of foes at once is a lot harder than fighting a single foe, even if that foe is tough. Let's take an incredibly simplified example:

Say you have two dudes fighting one another. They both have 50% chance to hit, deal 1 point of damage, and can take 10 points of damage. Who will win? That's a crap-shoot, but whoever does win is likely to be down to only one or two hit points by the end of it.

Now, let's instead say you have two dudes fighting a third, same stats as above. Who will win? Almost certainly the duo, and they'll likely only be down 5 points of damage between them. In a way, doubling the number of combatants on one side will make them four times as effective, because they both deal and take twice as much damage.

Fighting one opponent after the other is nowhere near as bad. If we had started out with a one-on-one fight, and then had the winner immediately fight a second fight... well, he'd almost certainly lose that fight, but he'd have managed to deal his foes about 10 points of damage instead of the 5 he'd deal in a two-on-one fight. That's why there's a multiplier for numerous opponents.

 

[Paraxis]

There is two types of "Help" in 5e, the combat action that gives advantage to an ally on his next singular attack against a creature within 5' of you, and "Help" with an ability check that has this limit on it from page 175 in the phb.

A character can only provide help if the task is one that he or she could attempt alone.

So while a bat familiar can help distract an enemy and give advantage to another character in the party, a bat familiar can not help with a medicine check.

Now an imp or quasit, those are helpful little buggers and in many situations are just as helpful as another PC.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Maybe. If you even notice it. There's a lot going on in combat, and tiny creatures aren't generally that loud. And it's not like this thing can physically hurt you, in any way, or try to grab your leg and prevent you from dodging.

It IS, however, taking an action out of its busy schedule to specifically "help" you. Maybe it's stepping on toes or getting underfoot or tickling your inner thigh or knocking around your helmet or something. It's not just standing there making oogly faces at you (though that might be enough sometimes!).

I think this is well within the scope of things that familiars were meant to be able to do.

.....it also makes me want to make a thief with ritual caster who dresses in pseudo-Arabic clothing and has a monkey familiar named Apu that knocks around enemies for him.

 

[Coredump]

There is two types of "Help" in 5e, the combat action that gives advantage to an ally on his next singular attack against a creature within 5' of you, and "Help" with an ability check that has this limit on it from page 175 in the phb.

A character can only provide help if the task is one that he or she could attempt alone.
.

Huh... I had missed that, thanks. I still think it leaves things a little to wide open (people can 'attempt' almost anything), but it at least gives the DM some grounds to thwart the most outrageous things.

(Yeah, I know the DM doesn't need it, but its still nice. And becomes more of an issue with AL play)

 

[EightPackKilla]

One of our custom class builds had "On each of your turns, you can take the help action as a bonus action" intended to be somewhat parallel to the rogue Cunning Action.

We had to nerf it. It was far too good.

Kinda like... Master of Tactics...
Rogue Mastermind.

 

[CapnZapp]

I admit the help action was one of those things I never really paid that much attention to. Yeah, I understood how it worked, but I never really thought abuot just how powerful this rule is until this past weekend.

In fact, it's so powerful we had to nerf it.

It completely trivializes the whole game to gain advantage. Whenever one character needs to succeed at a particular task while everybody else basically just watches - a very common occurrence - somebody else just says "I'll help, here, you've got advantage" which is just plain madness.

Climbing a wall, persuading the queen, finding the goblin track... getting free advantage throws every DC out of whack.

We basically removed "help" as an action except the one instance where it's balanced: in combat. When you have to pay the cost of "not doing anything yourself this turn", the action is within reason.

But out of combat? No way.

 

[5ekyu]

In fact, it's so powerful we had to nerf it.

It completely trivializes the whole game to gain advantage. Whenever one character needs to succeed at a particular task while everybody else basically just watches - a very common occurrence - somebody else just says "I'll help, here, you've got advantage" which is just plain madness.

Climbing a wall, persuading the queen, finding the goblin track... getting free advantage throws every DC out of whack.

We basically removed "help" as an action except the one instance where it's balanced: in combat. When you have to pay the cost of "not doing anything yourself this turn", the action is within reason.

But out of combat? No way.

We have had different outcomes and have not had to nerf it.

but for sure there are plenty of caveats.

Normally the requirement that in order to help "A character can only provide help if the task is one that he or she could attempt alone. For example, trying to open a lock requires proficiency with thieves' tools, so a character who lacks that proficiency can't help another character in that task. Moreover, a character can help only when two or more individuals working together would actually be productive. Some tasks, such as threading a needle, are no easier with help."

The other issue of course is what DCs the campaign typically uses and how they are determined - consistency etc.

But all three of the cases you describe are ones where i can see helping out and working together being potentially helpful **depending on circumstances** and the aptitudes of the individuals.

Since, Advantage changes the odds but not the threshold, its to me far from game breaking. it doesn't allow out of combat anything that might not happen anyway, it just lowers the chances of failure at the cost of manpower or time. Two people tracking is one less looking out for trouble. two people climbing make half the rate as one... each climbing one "turn" then helping one "turn." these are all trade-offs that in some circumstances will matter and should matter but in others are just fine.

But i myself have no problem with it in my games, noting that from time to time skill checks will require proficiency and so non-proficient wont be able to help.

Then again, in my game, you can encounter a DC 25 check (or a DC10) at level 3 or level 15 - depends on what the situation is. i tend to follow the DMG 10-15-20 guidelines backed up by up (down) for additional (lacking) resources, discipline or effort. Help does not seem to break that at all.

but all games will be unique.