Help creating a Monk

[Legildur]

I'm watching this thread with great interest as I am trying to build a viable human Monk for a campaign (first experience was consistent with 1st Ed rules - unsatisfying).

Using the Character Generator from the back of the PHB (so that the DM can verify #rolls taken - rerolled once) I got the following stats:

18, 18, 17, 14, 14, 13 - pretty happy

To make him viable I also will be using the Oriental Adventures rules for Monks, and so I have a question.

Assume I put 18 into Str and Flurry with a quarterstaff (special monk weapon in OA), is the attack sequence +2/+2 at 1d6+6?

That is, does he get the two-handed damage bonus to each strike? If so, that certainly helps (until his unarmed improve at later levels).

The quarterstaff is also a readily available weapon and a magical version is more likely to be found than a lajatang, or even nunchaku.

Don't forget, that under OA, you can trade out the stunning attack (Stunnning Fist feat), Deflect Arrows and Improved Trip for other martial arts feats. This could be attractive to build other feat chains that suit your flavour.

Also, the Shintao Monk PrC from OA (elegible from around 5th level) has bonus feats as per a Fighter. Another way to build a warrior monk quickly.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

As long as he is using a monk special weapon 2 handed and the weapon is his size or larger, he can get the full 1.5xStr Mod on all attacks.

--Monkey Spikey

 

[jontherev]

Pain Touch

You need a 19 wisdom to get Pain Touch, if your DM will allow feats from the fighter/monk sourcebook Sword & Fist. It's an excellent feat that makes an opponent who is stunned by you to be nauseated for the round AFTER it is stunned. Plus, at 8th level you can bump it up to 20 to get a +5 to AC, +5 to will saves, and a +5 to your stunning attack DC (which is a healthy 18!). Add a periapt of wisdom +2/+4, and you've got it made. Another idea is taking combat reflexes and then expert tactician (also in Sword and the Fist, updated in Song and Silence). That would give you an extra attack every time you stun someone. The real kicker though is if you get some Ki Straps (ahem...Sword and the Fist), which would add another +5 to your stun DC. Add an ally rogue flanking him for more mayhem...except vs. undead and other nasties immune to stunning. YMMV.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Pain Touch

Add an ally rogue flanking him for more mayhem...

Or a wand of Threatening Weapon for auto-flanking...

-Hyp.

 

[Chun-tzu]

I'd agree that Sprng Attack is a great feat for monks, and you can enhance that even further with Boots of Striding and Springing (Note that the boots have been errata'ed and now cost 6000 instead of 2500 gp). Monks are mobile combatants, and shouldn't be going toe to toe against the tough monsters, so Spring Attack gives you the hit--and-run tactic.

Don't forget, that under OA, you can trade out the stunning attack (Stunnning Fist feat), Deflect Arrows and Improved Trip for other martial arts feats. This could be attractive to build other feat chains that suit your flavour.

Also, the Shintao Monk PrC from OA (elegible from around 5th level) has bonus feats as per a Fighter. Another way to build a warrior monk quickly. [/B]

Actually, the Shintao Monk chooses from a different set of bonus feats than the Fighter's (but gains them at the same rate, one every other level).

As I pointed out a few days ago on another thread, the great thing about the Shintao monk is that you can build a character that masters **all 6** martial arts styles (counting Mighty Works Mastery twice) by level 20. To do this, though, you need to take 6 levels in Monk, at least 9 levels of Shintao Monk, 2 levels of Fighter, two levels of Psi-Warrior, plus the bonus feat that humans (and Strongheart Halflings) gain at level 1. You also have to plan out your feats very carefully, because only a few of the martial arts feats can be taken as Fighter/Psi-Warrior bonus feats, and the selection for Shintao Monk bonus feats is also limited. You need to save your level up feats for those feats that you can't take as bonus feats.

 

[Artoomis]

For a bit of a different take on this:

I am starting with the assumption that a wizard/monk is not intended to be a combat powerhouse. With that in mind, I'd worry about survival first, damage-dealing second and focus more on scouting than anything else.

Always have an Expiditious Retreat ready - no one can catch you that way. Mage Armor and Shield are two other great choices.

I don't know how much money a 7th level character gets without my book handy, but a few things to consider:

+2 stat items cost 4,000 - get one for Dex and Wis, at least. Con would be nice, too. Get Dex, then Wis, then Con if you can afford it.
+2 AC bracers are also 4,000
+1 Amulet of Natural Armor, 2,000
+2 cloak of resistance, 4,000
Ring of Jumping, 2,000
Boots of Striding and Springing. 6,000 per the errata

All good choices.

Total: 30,000 (24,000 without the boots).

Your ludicrously high stats might be placed:

S: 12 (Let's face it - monks are not teh damage dealers of the party)
D:17 (Raise to 18 at 8th level) (Let's get that AC and Reflex Save up)
Co:16 (Got to have hit poitns, and a +3 to Fort Saves)
I:18 (Skill points are REALLY important)
W:18 (17 +1) (Bonus to AC and Will Saves)
Ch:14 (Might as well be the party diplomat - you should do better at that than straight up combat)

For maximum survivability.

Stress what monks are good at - mobility and survivability.

Take scouting type skills, max out tumbling. Take Weapon Finesse (Unarmed) and look to OA for possible good defensive feats.

Possible list of skills to keep maxed out (you can keep 9 skills near maxed out with an 18 Int, limited only by starting as a Wizard):

Balance, Climb, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Tumble, Swim, Jump,

In addition to being the party scout and all-around survivor, you can also be the party diplomat. You should pretty well dominate many non-combat scenarios.

Assuming you boost Con, Wis, Dex and get the cloak of resiatnce +2:

Your AC should be 10 + 5 (boosted Dex) + 5 (boosted Wis) + 1 (Monk Bonus) + 2 (Bracers) + 1 (Amulet) = 25. Not bad - you'll want to always look for AC boosting items.

Note: Your armor class vs. touch attacks is 23 !! Not many touch attacks will affect you.

Your saves will be:
Ref: +5 +5(Dex) +2 (Resistance) = +12
Fort +5 +4 (Con) +2 (Resistance) = +11
Will +7 +5(Wis) +2(Resistance) = +14

Your hit points depend upon how you roll them, of course, but you'll get a bonus of 28 points on top of around 31 or so, for around 59 hit points at 7th level. Not bad. (If you use Living City rules you'll have 42 + 28 = 70 pts)

That's a pretty good start for your character.

Keep in mind your job is NOT front-line combat. Leave that for the fighters. You can jump in front of the wizards and survive until the fighters show up to kill the bad guys.

 

[Valorian]

Re: Wow

It seems to be a popular consensus (for a reason I cannot fathom at all), is that Monk's benifit greatly from the Spring Attack Feat....I completely disagree...I've played a monk, and see only counter-productivity in its use, and not much use for the feats required to get this feat (dodge and mobility).

The monk's large benefit in combat is their huge rate of attacks (they get the best progression in the game [only a -3 per blow with unarmed], and get flurry of blows, as a level 7 Monk, you can get 3 blows a round, but spring attack limits you to only one. Yes you can be a little more cagy with your actions, but you do so little damage to the oposition that it hardly matters that your in the fight (at least compared to the powerhouse fighter and barbarians).

One of the monk's big limitations is thier BAB progression, I'd specialize in unarmed (only if your DM allows the "amulet of mighty fists from Sword & Fist) or a "monk weapon"...I personally think the Butterfly Swords (from Oriental Adventures) 1d6 damage with crit on a 19-20, get a "keen" enchantent and the improved critical feat at some time. Taking feats such as weapon focus, etc.

Dodge isn't a bad feat for monk's but it only applies to one enemy,
and mobility is almost worthless because you probably won't have to worry about AOO because of your maxed out tumble skill.
Spring attack limits you to one attack instead of three...there have got to be better feats you can think of....I personally can recommend Improved Grapple (esp with a high strength), Blind Fighting, Power Attack, Flying Kick.

The types of characters that actually benefit from spring attack, are low hitpoint, low AC characters that do a great deal of damage per blow. We have a character in our campaign designed for this use, a Fighter (1 level)/Thief who can tumble/spring attack into prosition, "sneak attack" an opponent by flanking the person (say he's fighting one of our front line fighters), with a bastard sword wielded in two hands (bastard sword damage + 1.5 times strenth +4d6 "sneak attack"...now that person is getting some good use out of the spring attack feat.

As far as feats go, I'm not certain, other than (almost-required for a Monk) Spring Attack. Maybe an Exotic Weapon Proficiency in one of the OA monk weapons, if allowed--the three-section staff or Lajatang will let you capitalize on your high strength, giving you 1d8 + 1.5*StMod damage on each attack, even flurries.

I can't think of the ruling right now, but I'm almost certain you don't get 1.5 times your strength w/ either of those weapons when used with your unarmed BAB and flurry. They are effectively using the weapons like "double weapons", but don't take the strenght penalty for attacking w/ a secondary weapon.