D&D 5E Help deciding Divination Wizard vs. Bladesinger

[WASDHammer]

In a low level campaign (level 2, going through level 15) was lucky enough to roll a pretty great starting build (9 STR/ 16 DEX/ 16 CON/ 17 INT/ 13 WIS/ 11 CHA) BEFORE applying racial bonuses. I am currently a Divination Wizard, but to be honest am finding it a bit boring. Sure Portent is awesome, but Divination spells kind of suck. Expert Divination feels like it only exists to incentivize people to use Divination spells, otherwise, they wouldn't be used.

So that got me thinking. Since I rolled well enough to handle a pretty decent MAD build, is it worth trying Bladesinger? Our party is pretty range-heavy at the moment. My DM is letting me retcon my build, so wanted to ask what this distinguished group feels is the best option and build, as well as thoughts on early level play:

1) Variant Human Bladesinger (9 STR/17 DEX/16 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)

Proficiency: Rapier
Starting Feat: Mobile, ASI (4): +2 INT to 20, ASI (8): Warcaster, ASI (12): Lucky (Crit defense)
My plan is for this build to swoop in and out of combat, avoiding hits, and opportunity attacks and using spells like Expeditious Retreat to get the hell out of dodge after a melee attack.

2) High Elf Bladesinger (Custom) (9 STR/18 DEX/16 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)

Proficiency: Rapier, Shortsword, Hand Crossbow, Scimitar
ASI (4): Mobile, ASI (8): Warcaster, ASI (12): +2 Int to 20
Similar plan as Variant Human, but in this case, I could also have flexibility after level 6 to use hand crossbow/cantrip extra attack for flavor as well as melee, or even Dual Wielding. Sort of a weapons master RP build. Also Darkvision to aid in Shadowblade advantage

3) Half Elf Bladesinger (Custom) (9 STR/18 DEX/17 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)

Proficiency: Rapier
ASI (4): Mobile, ASI (8): Res (Con) Con to 18, ASI (12): +2 Int to 20
Beefier version of Variant Human with the added Con. And same Darkvision to aid in Shadowblade advantage. But similarly weaker Int until later game as High Elf.

4) Stick to Divination Wizard

Keep it simple stupid, and give Div. Wizard more of a chance!

I appreciate the help here. I find that I am completely overanalyzing this thing!

 

[ad_hoc]

My recommendation is to make choices that inspire you to have a memorable character.

You're likely going to get bored of any mechanics that you choose.

Having a character rather than a race/class/subclass combination will make it more likely that you will be engaged and interested in the game.

 

[Bill Zebub]

How come these threads never start with, "I rolled pretty badly...6, 11, 9, 10, 7, 12..."

 

[WASDHammer]

Trust me, Bill Zebub, I was equally surprised myself that I rolled that well. Your example is usually my norm. That's partially why I'm such a basket case about this one... I don't know what to do with these high numbers; they seem so foreign to me .

 

[Kobold Stew]

How come these threads never start with, "I rolled pretty badly...6, 11, 9, 10, 7, 12..."

Because then you play a moon druid!

 

[FrogReaver]

In a low level campaign (level 2, going through level 15) was lucky enough to roll a pretty great starting build (9 STR/ 16 DEX/ 16 CON/ 17 INT/ 13 WIS/ 11 CHA) BEFORE applying racial bonuses. I am currently a Divination Wizard, but to be honest am finding it a bit boring. Sure Portent is awesome, but Divination spells kind of suck. Expert Divination feels like it only exists to incentivize people to use Divination spells, otherwise, they wouldn't be used.

So that got me thinking. Since I rolled well enough to handle a pretty decent MAD build, is it worth trying Bladesinger? Our party is pretty range-heavy at the moment. My DM is letting me retcon my build, so wanted to ask what this distinguished group feels is the best option and build, as well as thoughts on early level play:

1) Variant Human Bladesinger (9 STR/17 DEX/16 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)

Proficiency: Rapier
Starting Feat: Mobile, ASI (4): +2 INT to 20, ASI (8): Warcaster, ASI (12): Lucky (Crit defense)
My plan is for this build to swoop in and out of combat, avoiding hits, and opportunity attacks and using spells like Expeditious Retreat to get the hell out of dodge after a melee attack.

2) High Elf Bladesinger (Custom) (9 STR/18 DEX/16 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)

Proficiency: Rapier, Shortsword, Hand Crossbow, Scimitar
ASI (4): Mobile, ASI (8): Warcaster, ASI (12): +2 Int to 20
Similar plan as Variant Human, but in this case, I could also have flexibility after level 6 to use hand crossbow/cantrip extra attack for flavor as well as melee, or even Dual Wielding. Sort of a weapons master RP build. Also Darkvision to aid in Shadowblade advantage

3) Half Elf Bladesinger (Custom) (9 STR/18 DEX/17 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)

Proficiency: Rapier
ASI (4): Mobile, ASI (8): Res (Con) Con to 18, ASI (12): +2 Int to 20
Beefier version of Variant Human with the added Con. And same Darkvision to aid in Shadowblade advantage. But similarly weaker Int until later game as High Elf.

4) Stick to Divination Wizard

Keep it simple stupid, and give Div. Wizard more of a chance!

I appreciate the help here. I find that I am completely overanalyzing this thing!

My take. Wizards aren't so much about subclass but about spells. A few subclasses can change the playstyle but most are going to feel mostly like Wizards. Right now your only level 2 and so you don't have alot of spells. Divination Wizard will feel alot better when you can start forcing enemies to fail saving throws against your powerful debuff spells. You may like it alot more at that point. Also, Divination Spells are great out of combat uses. You really should lean into that some if you are playing a Divination Wizard. It helps make him more fun. Take Augury and Ask your Dm some questions!

That said, the question is what you are going to find fun. If you really want to be in melee with a Bladesinger Wizard they can do it. But you'll be using most of your casting potential to keep up with martials. If that's what you find fun then go for it. Alternatively the Bladesinger can function as a back line wizard with above average defenses that doesn't have to run away when something runs up to him and also can run up into melee when the normal front liners are starting to get a bit injured. That to me would be the more effective and fun way to play the subclass.

Don't discount Evokers. Not being restricted where you use shatter/fireball is pretty awesome. And if you make it to level 10 or 14 the features are nice. You don't have to blast all the time, but it's nice knowing the option is there. Because typical wizard play will be something like, turn 1 cast a concentration buff or debuff spell. Turn 2 firebolt. The Evokers turn 2 can be Fireball everything.

Abjuration wizards are pretty boring, but effective.

Necromancers are cool with Animate Dead. Quite a different playstyle than other Wizards.

War Wizards are solid but don't add anything I would count as particularly fun.

 

[FrogReaver]

Because then you play a moon druid!

Or a life cleric works okay then too. Don't need much modifier to heal and bless.

 

[ECMO3]

In a low level campaign (level 2, going through level 15) was lucky enough to roll a pretty great starting build (9 STR/ 16 DEX/ 16 CON/ 17 INT/ 13 WIS/ 11 CHA) BEFORE applying racial bonuses. I am currently a Divination Wizard, but to be honest am finding it a bit boring. Sure Portent is awesome, but Divination spells kind of suck. Expert Divination feels like it only exists to incentivize people to use Divination spells, otherwise, they wouldn't be used.

So that got me thinking. Since I rolled well enough to handle a pretty decent MAD build, is it worth trying Bladesinger? Our party is pretty range-heavy at the moment. My DM is letting me retcon my build, so wanted to ask what this distinguished group feels is the best option and build, as well as thoughts on early level play:

1) Variant Human Bladesinger (9 STR/17 DEX/16 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)

Proficiency: Rapier
Starting Feat: Mobile, ASI (4): +2 INT to 20, ASI (8): Warcaster, ASI (12): Lucky (Crit defense)
My plan is for this build to swoop in and out of combat, avoiding hits, and opportunity attacks and using spells like Expeditious Retreat to get the hell out of dodge after a melee attack.

2) High Elf Bladesinger (Custom) (9 STR/18 DEX/16 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)

Proficiency: Rapier, Shortsword, Hand Crossbow, Scimitar
ASI (4): Mobile, ASI (8): Warcaster, ASI (12): +2 Int to 20
Similar plan as Variant Human, but in this case, I could also have flexibility after level 6 to use hand crossbow/cantrip extra attack for flavor as well as melee, or even Dual Wielding. Sort of a weapons master RP build. Also Darkvision to aid in Shadowblade advantage

3) Half Elf Bladesinger (Custom) (9 STR/18 DEX/17 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)

Proficiency: Rapier
ASI (4): Mobile, ASI (8): Res (Con) Con to 18, ASI (12): +2 Int to 20
Beefier version of Variant Human with the added Con. And same Darkvision to aid in Shadowblade advantage. But similarly weaker Int until later game as High Elf.

4) Stick to Divination Wizard

Keep it simple stupid, and give Div. Wizard more of a chance!

I appreciate the help here. I find that I am completely overanalyzing this thing!

I prefer a Bladesinger and you can build these a lot of ways and any of those seem viable. Personally I am not a fan of getting mobile with a bladesinger or resilient constitution, I would rather have an ASI, a half feat, or warcaster. One thing to note,at high levels you will run into problems not being able to prepare all the spells you want if you don't max intelligence pretty quickly. That said here is my 2 cents (for what it is worth)

#2. I like #2. I think that is very strong. I personally would take an ASI, lucky or warcaster at level 4 instead of mobile, but mobile will still work.

#1. I don't like #1 with those feats. With those scores I would take weapon master at 1st level and start out with an 18 in both Dex and Int and Whip, S. Sword, Rapier, hand cross bow. Then you have all the weapons you want and can start with 18 Dex and 18 intelligence. The hand crossbow is really good once you get extra attack, the loading does not matter because when you are ranged you make 1 attack with the crossbow and then follow it up with toll the dead or firebolt. Whip works really well with warcaster because of the 10' reach. Usually you want to attack with a better weapon, but this is great to trigger a spell OA.

#3 is the worst of those IMO, having just a Rapier is doable, but it kind of sucks down the road if you find a magic short sword or a magic scimitar etc If you are in a campaign where you can buy magic items this is not as big a deal. The odd constitution seems like a waste too.

Another option is custom lineage. This still has the limited weapon problem as #3 but you can take the +2 in dexterity and take either fey touched or shadow touched to boost intelligence to 18 and have both 18 Dex, 18 Int and get 2 extra spells and 2 extra castings. Misty step is something you are going to want anyway and there are a bunch of great off-list spells to pair with it. Personally I like Hex from Fey Touched at low levels. It is less useful in combat at high levels, but it is a free cast of it and still has out of combat uses. Shadow touched Invisibility is strong too, not as useful as Misty step and there are not as many good 1st level options to pair with it but a half feat that gives you a good spell and 2 castings a day is solid. For Shadow touched the 1st level spells I like are false life, cause fear, disguise self and silent image. False life is good at high levels, cause fear is a good at low levels and the other two are good utility at any level and again it is a free cast once a day.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

The question, fundamentally, is what excites you in the game. I personally would take a Bladesinger over a Diviner almost any time I could handle the MADness because I find the flexibility to hop into melee very appealing, and generally I value being able to use different tactics for different situations over optimizing for one set of tactics. By a similar token I'd go with some sort of option to get handcrossbow proficiency because adding the crossbow option to the repertoire as well fits my playstyle, even if I only use it for 10-20% of combats. I suspect, if you find Diviner boring, that you should probably maximize the number of possible tactics in your toolbox, so the High Elf, whom you can get a handcrossbow with (I guess) and an extra wizard cantrip is probably the best bet.

Also if you're going High Elf and picking weapon proficiencies and thinking about using multiple styles of combat consider getting longbow proficiency. It's not compatible with bladesong, but in the fights where you're at longbow ranges you don't need bladesong, and at low levels you may not have enough of it to last the day anyway. You actually can still keep all the weapon proficiencies you've chosen for the High Elf as long as you put one off to be your 2nd level Bladesinger weapon proficeincy.

 

[Andras]

I played a Half Elf Wizard Diviner until 6th and switched to Bladesinger at that time (TCE option)

Actually he started as a Dex Paladin and got a Headband of Intellect and then started down Wizard for slots and spell versatility. Ended Pal13/Wiz7 for 4th level spells in each class. The Portent rolls were Nasty paired with melee combat.

I took Metamagic Adept for Quicken. Once per day you can slip someone a Hold Person and lay the beatdown on them the same turn.