Help! I've been REINCARNATED as a BEAR

[Skaros]

That's how I remembered it too, though this may be an obvious comment if you had 4 attacks form bab you could choose to go claw,claw,claw,claw but at the 0,-5,10,-15 to your attack rolls rule form BAB. Where with the attack routine frequently it was 0,0,-2 for a claw,claw, bite routine.

Yep. If you look further in MotW, you'll also notice that there is a wildshape feat that is available to wildshaper-enabled folks, which reduces the penalty on that last attack.

This feat would be nonsensical if you didn't have the natural attack routine, including the number of attacks/round, associated with the creature you change into.

-Skaros

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Re: Reincarnation results

Dying meant I lost a level, which I assume means I lose the last class I took (Rogue level 3). Too bad, because it would be more useful than that 3rd level of Ranger. So, question one, I don't get to choose the class I lose, right?

The rules on page 153 of the Player's Handbook say a character who is resurrected immediately loses a level of experience, or a point of Constitution if the character is 1st level. If a multiclassed character is brought back to life, (for instance, a 5th-level fighter/4th-level wizard) does the character get to choose which level is removed? Or is it the highest level that the character has attained? Would this level loss immediately result in the 20% XP loss if the levels differed by more than 1?

You lose the highest level; this may actually remove an XP penalty by making character's class levels more even.

----DND FAQ

It's not the last level. It's the highest level. (If all of them are equal, I'd be nice and let you choose. A strict DM might make a random roll. Both of these are fine, IMO.)

 

[Mistwell]

Yup, I'm wrong

Yeah, I'm wrong, y'all are right, you do get all the natural attacks of the creature, not your characters prior number of attacks. I was misremembering. Serves me right, I should always check the rule before I spout off about the rule.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

Yeah, I'm the Wizard of this party ... polymorphing him would be fine, but his stats would stink and he'd probably have to make up a new character. Of course, if he needed to cast a spell, I could polymorph him, then dispel it after he's done.

I don't think he should be allowed to swap feats, but a nice DM may consider allowing him to change them a bit (weapon focus changed from a sword to a claw, for example). Sadly, our DM is a bastard.

 

[Van Dyksun]

Polymorph

I was hoping for a better reincarnation result--I really, REALLY wanted to be a centaur. Oh, man, that would have been great. But, you know, it's fun to role with the dice.

Thanks for the clarification on the class loss, ConcreteBuddha--the magnificent bastard of a DM and I discussed this yesterday and he agreed that I could remove the ranger class (making me a Rgr2/Rog3/Clr3) as long as I took it again when I hit 9th (which I would have done anyway, because I don't like to suffer exp loss penalties).

 

[Tom Cashel]

Bastard, checking in

So...if Van would normally get an extra attack due to his class levels, does this mean he adds an extra claw attack to his routine on the Full Attack option? I just want to be clear on the consensus for this.

Oh, and Lucius...you take 94 points of damage.

 

[Skaros]

Re: Bastard, checking in

So...if Van would normally get an extra attack due to his class levels, does this mean he adds an extra claw attack to his routine on the Full Attack option? I just want to be clear on the consensus for this.

Oh, and Lucius...you take 94 points of damage.

From what I understand, it is an either/or situation.

He can either use his natural attack routine, limiting him to only the 3 attacks (claw/claw/bite) in a full attack action. OR he could use his BAB with or without two weapon fighting to fight, possibly dropping him down to only one or two attacks in a full attack action, depending on BAB.

What I'm not sure about, is how BAB factors into the to-hit for the claw/claw/bite routing.

For instance, a black bear normally attacks at +6/+6/+1 for claw/claw/bite. If the character has a BAB of +4, how does that alter his to-hit bonuses? If his modified strength is 24, does his new natural attack routing go to +11/+11/+8? If his BAB is only +1, and his modified STR is only 18, does that make his natural attack routine +5/+5/+0?

Seems to make sense, but I've never really discussed it here before.

-Skaros

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Yeah, I'm the Wizard of this party ... polymorphing him would be fine, but his stats would stink and he'd probably have to make up a new character. Of course, if he needed to cast a spell, I could polymorph him, then dispel it after he's done.

I don't think he should be allowed to swap feats, but a nice DM may consider allowing him to change them a bit (weapon focus changed from a sword to a claw, for example). Sadly, our DM is a bastard.

No his stats could suck. If he was polymorphed into a human yes they would suck. But lets say instead of being reincarnated he was polymorphed by a wizard of absurd power so you couldn't dispel it. You could polymorph him back into himself, and he would get his normal stats, not the human norms. hat is the one exception for the ordinary stats of the race rule, if you are polymorphed into yourself you get your full stats. Now the question you might want to ask your DM, and maybe the answer will and should be try it and find out, what is Van's true self. Is it the bear, the human or maybe even both.

 

[Skaros]

No his stats could suck. If he was polymorphed into a human yes they would suck. But lets say instead of being reincarnated he was polymorphed by a wizard of absurd power so you couldn't dispel it. You could polymorph him back into himself, and he would get his normal stats, not the human norms. hat is the one exception for the ordinary stats of the race rule, if you are polymorphed into yourself you get your full stats. Now the question you might want to ask your DM, and maybe the answer will and should be try it and find out, what is Van's true self. Is it the bear, the human or maybe even both.

Of course this is also very open to interpretation.

For one, many would argue that a human polymorphing into a human, would, by the rules of polymorph self, obtain the stats of the average human. Is there language in the polymorph self spell that suggests you can polymorph into your normal form, or is this just logical interpolation on your part? (cause I could be wrong, of course!)

Second, many, including me, might argue that after reincarnation "yourself" no longer means your previous form...but the new one you have been reincarnated into!

hehehe.

Regards,

Skaros

 

[Van Dyksun]

Working on the implications

Let's look at the wording of the Reincarnate spell from the SRD again:

With this spell, the character brings back a dead creature in another body, provided death occurred no more than 1 week before the casting of the spell and the subject’s soul is free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, subjects who want to return receive no saving throw. Since the dead creature is returning in a new body, all physical ills and afflictions are repaired. The magic of the spell creates an entirely new young adult body for the soul to inhabit from the natural elements at hand. This process requires 1 hour to complete. When the body is ready, the subject is reincarnated.

Thsi is fairly straightforward. The new body is entirely new and nothing of it is from the old except for the soul inhabiting it.

A character reincarnated recalls the majority of his former life and form. He retains his Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, as well as any class abilities or skills he formerly possessed. His class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on his new body. First eliminate the character’s racial adjustments (since he is no longer of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below. The character’s level is reduced by 1. (If the character was 1st level, his new Constitution score is reduced by 1.)

The character "recalls the majority of his former life and form" clearly means that there are some things from the past life and form that are not recalled. Is this like amnesia? Or is this like someone who has undergone weird psychotherapy to "recall past lives."

We're roleplaying it like the second one, where the new being is like an entirely new character, with a new name, who has this strange ability to recall things that the old character knew. But the personality is different.

The problem I see with the polymorph other spell is (also from the SRD):

The creature’s new scores and faculties are average ones for the race or species into which it has been transformed. The character cannot, for example, turn someone into a mighty weight lifter to give the subject great Strength.

That implies to me that you can't polymoroph into a specific person/being, but just an average one.

An average human sucks.

I thought about having the wizard polymorph me into a centaur (where even an average one wouldn't be so bad), but there's this bit from the spell description:

The new form can be disorienting. Any time the polymorphed creature is in a stressful or demanding situation (such as combat), the creature must succeed at a Will save (DC 19) or suffer a –2 penalty on all attack rolls, saves, skill checks, and ability checks until the situation passes.

I get into a lot of stressful situations. If the -2 wasn't too bad....

Hey, maybe I should have the wizard polymorph me into a brown bear? Then I would be even more of a tank and the disorientation wouldn't be so bad.