Help me beat my DM :)

[Nail]

Contingency has an instantaneous effect, which even a quickened spell is slower than IMHO......

Not to rain on your parade, but "instantaneous" is a reserved term in 3e, and us used for the duration, not how long the spell takes to cast.

Whether a quickened spell is faster in immaterial.

In this case (the contingency spell description) the word "instantaneous" does seem to have something to do with timing....but again, it's an open arguement, largely dependent on what the contingency-casting mage actually says when defining conditions. Kinda like wording a wish, I guess.

IOW, a straight-forward interpretation of the spell description would imply:
#1) 9th level spell is cast.
#2) Contingency goes off.

Note that if that 9th level spell that just went off is Mord's Disjunction, centered on the dragon, then the contingency is gone, so...well, never mind what the conditions were.

 

[Nail]

Now, can you have a contingency react to something that can't be easily ascertained - ie, whether someone is casting a 9th level spell, before the spell goes off?

Good question.

Probably ascertaining a specific spell is no problem.

"Teleport me home if I'm fireballed."

Probably ascertaing a spell level is a problem. After all, what spell in the core rules allows you to know the level of the spell being cast? Does Detect Magic do this?

 

[Vuron]

I would suggest that your interpretation makes no sense as even a quickened M's Disjunction requires a free action to accomplish and a character with a readied action could in theory cancel that spell with an attack or a counterspell, that a spell whose description uses the word instanteous albiet in the flavor text would also be able to counter the effect of the disjunction.

 

[Nail]

Probably ascertaing a spell level is a problem. After all, what spell in the core rules allows you to know the level of the spell being cast? Does Detect Magic do this?

Praise Krom for the SRD!

from the SRD, Detect Magic spell description:
Aura Strength: An aura’s magical power and strength depend on a spell’s functioning spell level or an item’s caster level.

		Functioning	 Item
		   Spell 		Caster
Strength 	                   Level 		 Level
-------- 	                -----------	                 ------
Dim                          0-level or              Lingering
                             lingering aura              aura
Faint                        1st–3rd                   1st–5th
Moderate                 4th–6th                   6th–11th
Strong                      7th–9th                 12th–20th
Overwhelming         Artifact or                Beyond
                               deity-level                 mortal
                                 magic                      caster

If an aura falls into more than one category, detect magic indicates the stronger of the two.

IOW, Detect Magic can get you within 3 levels of the spell level. Otherwise, you'll need ....Spellcraft?

 

[Vuron]

I concur as to acertaining spells that you could state, "Teleport me out if a Strong (7th level +) abjuration effect is cast within a certain radius"

 

[Nail]

I concur as to acertaining spells that you could state, "Teleport me out if a Strong (7th level +) abjuration effect is cast within a certain radius"

Yup, that sounds good. Pretty limiting to the dragon though, wouldn't you think? After all, she might want to cast some abjuration spells, right?

 

[Zappo]

Is there an official source on contingency vs. time stop and/or contingency vs. M's Disjunction? The wording is ambiguous about when the spell goes off.

As for the conditions, I would only allow it to feel what the wizard feels. So, it can tell if someone is casting a spell but it can't tell which spell. Well, not before the spell's effect is manifest. But that's just an "I would", of course.

 

[Nail]

Wow, is posting formated tables to this message board screwy/difficult! I refuse to "edit" again to get those d@nm tables to line up!

 

[jmucchiello]

So change the wording of the contingency to "When a 9th level spell is being cast by someone else within 200 feet of me." I don't word lawyer spells. It's fricking magic. Magic has intelligence. Wishes do what you mean. And I'm not about to open argument about it the other way. I play with my players not against them. Afterall, the dragon with the 35 Int is not going to make the mistake of forgetting the word "being" when he casts the contingency. Me with a mortal Int can certainly make such a mistake.

2) Spells have level in the game world and it is easy to discern what level they are as they are being cast. Why? Because every mage knows that a 9th level spell takes 18 pages in a spell book. Don't some mages write smaller than others? Apparently not so there must be something about the magic formula that takes an exact amount of space.

 

[jmucchiello]

Is there an official source on contingency vs. time stop and/or contingency vs. M's Disjunction? The wording is ambiguous about when the spell goes off.

As for the conditions, I would only allow it to feel what the wizard feels. So, it can tell if someone is casting a spell but it can't tell which spell. Well, not before the spell's effect is manifest. But that's just an "I would", of course.

A Spellcraft check can determine the name of the spell before it goes off, even if you use the Quicken Spell feat on the spell. This is obvious since you can ready to counter even a quickened spell. In order to counter it, you have to know what it is before it goes off.

Edit: And the Dragon's Spellcraft is so high that he will always know what spell is being cast.