Help me beat my DM :)

[jgbrowning]

i always though putting "http://enworld.cyberstreet.com" somewhere on D20 products would be the best thing to happen to the industry since OGL..

but im biased..


joe b.

 

[Mark]

i always though putting "http://enworld.cyberstreet.com" somewhere on D20 products would be the best thing to happen to the industry since OGL..

but im biased..


joe b.

You're not alone. If it wasn't for the OGL, d20 license, etal, I couldn't be jumping into the publishing industry, but if it wasn't for people like Eric, Russell, Kevin, etal, I wouldn't be jumping into the publishing industry...

 

[Sanackranib]

Hail all,

I've got this bet with my DM that I can build a character of 18th level that will wipe out any dragon he throws at me (no Gods, or weird dragons, just the ones in the MM).

What I'm thinking of so far is either a sorcerer or a wizard with:
-Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration
-SR thru some item, or PrC
-Ring of Spell Turning (handy dandy)
-Permanent True Seeing (for pesky invis dragons)
-Gate, Gate and Gate some more (thinking Solars here)
-Time Stop (then see Gate)

Now I need some ideas on how to proceed from here, what spells would be good against dragons, and no I don't know which type. What items are a must-have, etc. Strategies, tactics, you name it. Help me defeat my DM

Thanks

unless yyou know the color ahead of time he is gona probably breath with his old wyrm and kill you. if that doesnt then remember that dragos get somthing like 4 or 6 attacks and they will probably all overcome your defences. for a spellcaster you will have to overcome its SR and save. find out what color you are dealing with so you can at least cancell out its breath weapon. then you at least have a chance. as far as the spells, if I were you I would count on getting hit by some real doozys yourself.
shadow touch is only 3rd level but you could loose up to 12 STR per casting, not good if he is hasted and you are an arcane caster. while I do't doubt that some PC's can solo kill some dragons, you are the first oe that I have ever encountered that ragged you could kill any dragon.

a lot willl be up to your DM too. a really experinced DM would probably chew your guy up into hamburger. so Good Luck killing the dragon, let us know how it goes.

 

[Robbert Raets]

Easy, you just get a big Carp and smack him upside the he...

-Wait, you mean in-game.... Sorry. Try to remember that the Player & DM are not supposed to be enemies. Winning makes no better story than losing.

 

[Buttercup]

Whether or not you can win this one depends on the skill and knowledge base of your DM. As others have said, if he reads this board, fageddaboudit. If he doesn't, then following the harm/sonic suggestions in this thread will probably give you the victory.

 

[Shallown]

Try to find a way to Blink.

This gives you a 50% miss chance for the dragon and is the only way I can think of that works with blind sight.

It will save you on those physical attacks and I think helps with the breath weapon and some spells as well.

Just an idea.

later

 

[kkoie]

Even if it lost init due to a multiple empowered cat's grace and was struck with a touch spell disintegrate spell with a DC the dragon couldn't make?

Or was hit on a single strike that hit an AC 30 higher than it's best that did over 3x as many hit points as the dragon had?

Because these are all possibilities at 18th level.

At 18th level in a deathmatch situation, sometimes initiative is the only thing that matters. And dragons aren't exactly known for their dexterity.

Well your forgetting mirror images, displacement, haste, improved invisibility that the dragon could have active. Not to mention that it is also capable of having several cat's grace spells active as well.

As for the DC against disintegrate, you've got to be kidding. Assuming its a great wyrm, then the crappiest fortitude save is white, at +28. Thats unmodified with average stats. For one thing if I was DMing this dragon would not be going by average stats. Plus there is always the possibility that the dragon might be using a magic item or two that ups its saves.

So you waste your first round casting disintegrate, which the dragon makes its save no problem. Then the dragon casts dispel magic on the mage, and all those contingency spells the mage had active go by by, plus since the dragon is hasted, it uses its remaining action to bite the mage and 'grapple' him in its mouth. The mage fails the str. or escape artist check to escape the dragons clamping mouth, and thus gets no save the next round when the dragon breaths all over his sorry self.

 

[Storminator]

I was just looking over the first few Smackdowns (tm), and they are not going to touch a Great Red Wyrm. At least the first few all deal a few hundred points of damage. Yippee. The dragon can take that two or three times, have a little left over, and lets not forget it casts cleric spells like a sorcerer.

Look at the Arcane smackdown. Save DCs of 33, vs the dragon's saves of at least +22 (barring any feats). Not impressive. Let alone the SR, which is at least 32 (again barring feats). The monk smackdown is a joke. Fort save DC 30? If your tactic is "hope the dragon rolls a 1" this is bitchin. I won't continue.

The Great Red Wyrm is a CR 25. He should destroy you and all your friends at the same time. If you go in alone you shouldn't even be able to figure out how he killed you.

PS

 

[Zappo]

Re: Re: Greater Spell Penetration too

If the dragon is preparing for you, and is willing to be extremely unfair, it can use a Contingencied Heal, and nerf this tactic instantly. So come up with another, cause you might need back up!

For that matter, you could also very well miss the SR check. A GW red has, what, 38?, so even with greater spell penetration he's going to have to score a 16 or better. I suggest Potions of Haste, scrolls of Time Stop (and an appropriate domain to use them) and preparing a heap of those ranged Harms, because he'll need four on average to land one.

It's cheesy, and the quickest way to get Harm banned, but it has the advantage of simplicity.

 

[Sanackranib]

great red wyrm

I was just looking over the first few Smackdowns (tm), and they are not going to touch a Great Red Wyrm. At least the first few all deal a few hundred points of damage. Yippee. The dragon can take that two or three times, have a little left over, and lets not forget it casts cleric spells like a sorcerer.

Look at the Arcane smackdown. Save DCs of 33, vs the dragon's saves of at least +22 (barring any feats). Not impressive. Let alone the SR, which is at least 32 (again barring feats). The monk smackdown is a joke. Fort save DC 30? If your tactic is "hope the dragon rolls a 1" this is bitchin. I won't continue.

The Great Red Wyrm is a CR 25. He should destroy you and all your friends at the same time. If you go in alone you shouldn't even be able to figure out how he killed you.

PS

If I ran this encounter assuming you surprised it and beat it on initataive the real "bet" would be does the player get his 3rd attack because you would definatly not get your 4th round. somthing else that hasn't even been brought up yet is dragons have minions, and can have humanoid familiars so you would have that to deal with that too. this encounter would be near impossible if the dragon was adverage stats, no feats or spells and the DM ran it strickly as a melee/breath weapon encounter. If thats what you think dragons are then I'm sorry we had to burst your bubble. remember - any spell you can cast, it probably can too and at a higher level. that doesn't leave you too meny options (esp if you don't even know its color) when you consider its HD, hit points, AC, saves, SR, # of attacks,how well it hits (anything but a "1") damage, DR, breath weapon etc. honestly you will be "lucky" to even hurt it with only 1 character of 18th level
there is a reason that Dragons are THE top of the food chain!