Help Me Convice Someone D&D Isn't Evil

[jester47]

Trevalon, I have been in your exact situation. In Junior High none the less. We started a club called the RPG club. That got us by the paranoia (I do not think we could have started a D&D club). However one of the teachers (a good friend of mine ironicly) found out what we were doing and had a fit about it. We weathered it until spring when our advisor decided that we should all go outside and get some fresh air.

First you should understand the situation of the power of the thing you are dealing with. I would suggest this thread.

Also, some of the reports from the link above seem like they would help in this too.

This should open some insight as to why these games are so scary to some.

How does this help you? It tell yous why she is afraid of it. And it also tells you why I am afraid of it somtimes. While I did start gaming at an early age I do wish I had discovered it later in life. I think starting so soon did me more harm than good.

I would say that your AP is right, but for all the wrong reasons. She has been told it was bad and will stick to it. I do not think that RPGs are good for teenagers as a whole. Some, like yourself, can handle it, many cannot. I think the best course of action is to keep D&D out of the school. Do what we did. Capitulate. After several meetings we had a very stong D&D community. Yeah, we did not game after school come springtime, but we were all able to meet and we knew who the gamers were. Meet. Play games. Get to know the people. Then invite them to a D&D game if they are interested. This way you get the networking which in my opinion is more important than the place to play. It is unfortunate that such a person is in a position to make your life very difficult if she so chooses. Best bet is to lay low. Or you could go after her job, but it had better work. If the laws permit you could make like Micheal Moore and run for superintendant and make sure she leaves. Or send unsigned letters out to the teachers and parents with instructions to sign the letters and mail them to the schoolboard stating she should not be in charge. But I think the best way is to say "Oh sorry, yeah you're right, D&D is inappropriate, our bad." That way you can live to pick your battles.

 

[jester47]

My grandmother read a book on how the Eagles were satanic, it was based on the song "Hotel California" having the lyric "you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave." the whole book revolved around how obviously satanic that verse was, Thus no Eagles albums for me.

Wow, never mind that lyric "you can stab it with your stealy knives, but you just can't kill the beast." or "I was thinking to myself this could be heaven or this could be hell." or "we are all just prisoners here of our own device."

Aaron.

 

[pogre]

Play anyway. Call it D20 War skirmish simulation with story interludes. She's too dumb to figure that out.

 

[jdavis]

Wow, never mind that lyric "you can stab it with your stealy knives, but you just can't kill the beast." or "I was thinking to myself this could be heaven or this could be hell." or "we are all just prisoners here of our own device."

Aaron.

Yea I think the whole point the book was trying to get at was that when you join a Satanic Cult you can never get out of it, and that one song lyric was their proof. Grandma had alot of books and phamplets and stuff, that one just sort of struck me as a odd one. She had a fit when I got a Kiss album (Kings in Service to Satan). A friend of mine was forbidden to watch movies until he was 18, all movies were evil.

The big point is that some people you just can't reason with. You should try to play the Star Wars role playing game, it's sort of hard to call Star Wars evil (although I'm sure some people can do it.) Alot of times people like that can't tell the difference between one roleplaying game and another, D&D is just the most popular one and has been villified almost from the start.

 

[Zappo]

Every Scientific Research Study on Role-Playing Games Since 1994

(Find a couple that fit your case, as it's 50/50 stuff.)

If I were in you, I would demand that the AP gives me references for the "research" that shows D&D as potentially harmful (hey, at least she didn't claim it is the Tool of the Devil). There are few... ahem... "famous" (=notorious) pieces of... uhm... "literature" that argue this, such as Pulling's stuff, and that have been thoroughly debunked. If her research is one of those, you can get a solid debunking and hand it to her superior. Always remember to stay cool.

If you aren't that lucky, you can just use the link above and overwhelm her documents with 10 times that amount of proof that RPGs are harmless or beneficial. Send the whole bunch to her superior. Make sure to only choose the most rational and scientific-looking documents. Some of them are available online; print them out. Give references for the rest.

If she just refuses to produce her "research", I would just get to her superior and explain the situation. I hope that anyone in charge of a school can at least have the brains to recognize that claiming "research says so" without references is worthless.

That's what I would do. I mean, you are right and you can produce megabytes of real research to prove it. Unless this AP is really mad at roleplaying, she probably doesn't have anything beyond a tabloid article and can't produce anything more. You just have to play your cards right.

 

[Tonguez]

Play Spycraft

do it as a straight espionage game and make sure you go for stealth and not kills and avoid criminal activities unless they are for the glory of your country!

 

[Mirth]

I just thought that I would impart this tale for everyone's benefit. Sometimes it's good to hear a positive story about the subject

My high school years were from 1982-86, the heyday of D&D bashing. I was pretty much your prototypical social misfit back then. My saving grace in school was the Gamer's Club, for which I served as the President for two years. We had our club picture taken for the school yearbook, with descriptive remarks about the positive & creative aspects of the hobby right alongside. All we did in that club was play D&D, most afternoons and pretty much every weekend at each other's homes (if you've ever seen the D&D episode of Freaks & Geeks, you'd know what my life was like back then ).

Looking back, it seems almost inconceivable that we were able to pull that club off, especially given the time frame and that it was a predominantly redneck high school in North Carolina. I think that one of the key factors to our success and survival was that we had so many "popular" people in the club. The student body president, the head of the Key Club, the captain of the wrestling team, a prominent member of the football team, the head of the AFJROTC (that was me - ubergeek), were all members of the club. What amazes me also, was how many Saturday nights we would spend playing D&D, when I know those guys were blowing off some REALLY hot girls to be there. We just had such a good time with the game that it superceded everything else, I suppose.

All of those guys became my best friends, we kept in touch and gamed all through college (one of them was my college roommate). Even now, at 34 years of age, most of us still keep in touch, although none of us game together anymore because we have all gotten married, had kids and/or moved to different areas of the country (or out of the country). I didn't know how good I had it then. We kept one campaign going for over 10 years - all four years of high school, all four years of college and a couple of years after that. It was simply spectacular. I wound up getting a Bachelor's and a Master's degree in English Lit. in large part because of that time in my life. I own a book and music store today, mostly driven by my passions that were born in that time.

Trevalon, I truly wish you luck in your endeavor. I will go out on a limb here and say that if your application for a club is denied, then take it to the local media (TV, radio, newspaper, etc.). Heck, even get in touch with Wizards first. I'm sure they have PLENTY of experience dealing with this kind of situation. Perhaps they would be interested in talking to the media and dispelling some of the myths, misconceptions and drama that is associated with our hobby. Just make sure that you approach the situation with a level head and that you have the paperwork to back up your claims (including copies of the memo that you sent to your AP and any forms that she has written about the subject). If you want to draw a stark contrast, you could research how sports (another type of game, natch) like football, basketball, baseball, etc. can be proven to sometimes be addicitive and detrimental pasttimes for youths who are not ready to handle the rejection and competition involved. Yet no one at that school would argue that those groups be banned, I assure you.

I wrote more here than I intended. I just feel that our hobby gets enough flak and if we don't stand up for it and inform the ignorant, then it's just going to continue being a bad situation. My son is 10 months old now, and I guarantee you that if he ever wants to start a club at school in the future and is denied by the administration, I will be the first person at the school door the next morning to demand reasons why.

I've said enough, I guess.

Jay

 

[Buttercup]

Trevalon, I'm not sure this is a battle you can win. I have two suggestions: Go ask your local public library if you can have the club there (I'm betting they'd be thrilled to have you) or enlist the help of your parents. I assume your and your friend's parents know you play D&D and are ok with it?

The sad truth is that minors don't really have much sway with adults in our society, especially in the school system. But if your parents ask to see the school board's written policies on student clubs, and if they make a scene about the assistant principal imposing her religious beliefs on the student body, you may get somewhere. You will still be in for a major hassle, and by the time you win, the school year may be over. In which case, you will have made the high school experience better for those who come after you, and that will have to be enough.

So in the meantime, go talk to the teen librarian at the local public library anyway.

 

[Bonedagger]

D&D isn't evil?

 

[MEG Hal]

And it also tells you why I am afraid of it somtimes. While I did start gaming at an early age I do wish I had discovered it later in life. I think starting so soon did me more harm than good.

Ok, this thread has interested me but I was not going to post because some good thoughts came from this.

First, do research and go in knowing more then you need, nothing shocks adults more then a minor with facts to back up a statement or a cool, smart well thought out argument (not yelling , but speech).
Another tact is to do research and see who has played RPG's and look where they are now type of thing.

I truly believe that I would not have been such an avid reader and have wanted to be in law enforcement if it was not for D&D, call it weird but I always new I wanted to try it, and I played a lot of post apocalyptic RPG's and thought about modern skills etc...

I really do have only positive feelings from me wanting to play this game and others like it and I am a probation officer and a game publisher and all I need is a super model and a million dollars and my life is complete .

So listen to what everyone else is posting and get your act together even if you have to give the research to your parents to help, they will be impressed with what thought you put into this.


Ok--as to the quote above, Jester47 I am fascinated by that quote, could you explain more of what you meant please.