Help Me Convice Someone D&D Isn't Evil
- Thread starter Trevalon Moonleirion
- Start date
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
I just wanted to also add in a request to keep us posted. The issue of being able to game in school (though not during class) is one that will come up in the future, so if you win this fight (which you should, since you're in the right here) you'll be adding more precedent (as well as a how-to) for the embattled gamers who come after you.
William Ronald
Explorer
Trevalon,
I wish you and Ed the best. (By the way, e-mail me for more things to pull on each other.) I think there have been several valuable suggestions. Follow up on the links and gather your materials.
Also, I think organizing parents and calling in the ACLU might work. However, you need to be fully armed with statistics. While my high school did have a gaming club, we did have to deal with misinformation. In life, the truth is one of your most valuable weapons.
Based on what I have read and heard, it seems that your assistant principal is on a power trip, using her faith to justify enforcing her opinions on others. This is sad, but the same actions have been taken by people following any number of theistic or atheistic belief systems. In the case of the assistant principal, I believe she may be having a love affair with power. That and she seems to make the Borg from Star Trek seem subtle. (Okay, she is slightly more tolerant though perhaps as predictable.)
My advice is to initially use the public library system. My friend Jim (whom I should try to get to the boards, but that's another story) and I ran several games at Chicago Public Libraries in the early 1980s. One thing we did was ask players to check out books, which increased circulation. (This looked very good for the local branch library with the higher ups.)
You may have an ally in the principal. Gather your facts and talk to him. It seems the AP may be violating your legal rights. If you do not fight for your rights, you may lose them.
As for the religious debate here, I will remind people that this is not Nutkinland. (If you want to debate religion, carry it over there.) I will say that as a practicing Reform Jew, I find some of the religious arguments used against RPGs to be utterly puzzling. I mean this is a game where players succeed by mutual cooperation using characters with diverse skills. This resembles many real world endeavors. Indeed, I find the people who focus on the evils of role playing to be absurd in a world with real evils that need to be combatted in many ways. (Perhaps your assistant principal has not heard of news reports. Or of hunger, poverty, disease, or bigotry.)
Jason, I don't know how I can help, but you have my help if you need it. I would like to ask all educators and clergy on these boards to give Jason advice. (Or if you know anyone who is a gamer and is either in the clergy or an educator, ask for there advice.)
Sorry if this went a little long. Good luck and please keep us informed.
I wish you and Ed the best. (By the way, e-mail me for more things to pull on each other.) I think there have been several valuable suggestions. Follow up on the links and gather your materials.
Also, I think organizing parents and calling in the ACLU might work. However, you need to be fully armed with statistics. While my high school did have a gaming club, we did have to deal with misinformation. In life, the truth is one of your most valuable weapons.
Based on what I have read and heard, it seems that your assistant principal is on a power trip, using her faith to justify enforcing her opinions on others. This is sad, but the same actions have been taken by people following any number of theistic or atheistic belief systems. In the case of the assistant principal, I believe she may be having a love affair with power. That and she seems to make the Borg from Star Trek seem subtle. (Okay, she is slightly more tolerant though perhaps as predictable.)
My advice is to initially use the public library system. My friend Jim (whom I should try to get to the boards, but that's another story) and I ran several games at Chicago Public Libraries in the early 1980s. One thing we did was ask players to check out books, which increased circulation. (This looked very good for the local branch library with the higher ups.)
You may have an ally in the principal. Gather your facts and talk to him. It seems the AP may be violating your legal rights. If you do not fight for your rights, you may lose them.
As for the religious debate here, I will remind people that this is not Nutkinland. (If you want to debate religion, carry it over there.) I will say that as a practicing Reform Jew, I find some of the religious arguments used against RPGs to be utterly puzzling. I mean this is a game where players succeed by mutual cooperation using characters with diverse skills. This resembles many real world endeavors. Indeed, I find the people who focus on the evils of role playing to be absurd in a world with real evils that need to be combatted in many ways. (Perhaps your assistant principal has not heard of news reports. Or of hunger, poverty, disease, or bigotry.)
Jason, I don't know how I can help, but you have my help if you need it. I would like to ask all educators and clergy on these boards to give Jason advice. (Or if you know anyone who is a gamer and is either in the clergy or an educator, ask for there advice.)
Sorry if this went a little long. Good luck and please keep us informed.
Trevalon Moonleirion
Explorer
I just want to thank everyone again for all of the help and advice that you've given....I love this place so much! 
Anubis, your input is appreciated, but please don't get too into religion-bashing... I like my thread... don't get it closed, please.
Anubis, your input is appreciated, but please don't get too into religion-bashing... I like my thread... don't get it closed, please.
It seems like this administrator has far too many personal agendas on her list. Be that as it may, the primary goal of an administrator of a public school facility is to ensure the community's interests upheld (i'll avoid bringing this into the realm of district-level politics)- or at least that is probably the line you'll hear. As weak as it may sound to you, it'll get nods at any meetings. It'll be interesting to see how any attempt at the civil liberties route works for you, as they may pull the whole "interests of the parents" issus or address it at a committee.
Ultimately, as sad as it may be, the school is not responsible for providing students with facilities to entertain themselves extracurricularly in any way they wish and can deny programs they deem frivolous- and they can go out of their way if they wish to use any biases they or the community has to undermine any contrary logic that states the D20 system is just as frivolous as welcomed clubs like "Chess Club."
G'luck, sadly I hope you're also spending a bit of time finding a different afterschool location to play.
Ultimately, as sad as it may be, the school is not responsible for providing students with facilities to entertain themselves extracurricularly in any way they wish and can deny programs they deem frivolous- and they can go out of their way if they wish to use any biases they or the community has to undermine any contrary logic that states the D20 system is just as frivolous as welcomed clubs like "Chess Club."
G'luck, sadly I hope you're also spending a bit of time finding a different afterschool location to play.
jdavis
First Post
Planning Planning Planning. Make sure you have all your ducks in a row before you do anything. Gather all your information and make sure your arguement is as tight as you can make it. I also thing that just going after the D&D problem isn't going to get you anywhere, I'd hit her on everything she has done or said that anybody at the school found wrong or distasteful. The longer the list of complaints the better chance you have of at least getting some of the problems taken care of.
Good Luck
Good Luck
mythago
Hero
See, when a post leads off with this, you're either dealing with a troll or someone who's severely irony-challenged. In either case, there's no point in arguing with them. Think pig-wrestling.
GSAs (gay-straight alliances) are indeed one group that schools frequently try to prohibit, and which courts have consistently found are protected by equal access.
I don't, personally, think you need to bother with collecting grievances, explaining why D&D is really a good thing, etcetera. The only relevant factor here is that you attend a public secondary school that permits extracurricular clubs, and you want to form one. Period. Unless she can articulate a specific concern that the Equal Access Law allows her to use, she's SOL.
Oh, and...
This is a good thread. Let's not sic Godwin's Law on it, please.
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Henry
Autoexreginated
Anubis said:
And I can assure you that a flame war will NOT happen. If someone were to voice an opinion counter to your own, they are entitled to it, same as you are entitled to yours. We're here for RPG discussion, not someone's religious beliefs.
And this thread is getting WAY too heated. If one has something positive to contribute to Trevalon's original request, please do so. Otherwise, it doesn't need to be here.
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