Help Me Convice Someone D&D Isn't Evil
- Thread starter Trevalon Moonleirion
- Start date
I've got a pretty good analogy for D&D that most people I talk to accept it. D&D is basically like a book, it's an escapist activity, except it's done in a social environment. The interaction with other people makes it somewhat better than a book. The DM is the writer of the book, and the players are the story. However the story is based on what the characters do. The characters basically create the story. Because of this it stimulates the creative areas of the mind. Any negative publicity is brought by a few bad examples. Just like their are bad books out there that your AP wouldn't want you to read.
Oddly enough using this analogy I convinced most of my HS teachers and even a couple ministers that it wasn't a bad game at all. This was in a close minded christian town of 2000 or so, very very close minded. Some other things to get across is that it is perceived as bad by people who know nothing of the game, and have never tried it. Try to stress that this view makes players feel outcasted. Point out that it is more of a social event that safely stimulates the mind... as compared to going to a movie or playing a video game (not that I discourage these actions hehe). Another point that I read once is that D&D players often are less prone to suicide (truthfully I believe most D&D players are just more stable people). Basically I think that you have to convince her that it is a positive game that stimulates the use of the mind, I found that the book analogy works best, but it might not for you. As for hiding it in the first place I disagree... if found out then, if would probably have become a bigger deal "High school students playing satanic games in secret" or some such BS. Confront her, explain why the game is good, explain that it's better than you being on the streets getting drunk or doing drugs. A much healthier habit. Basically say it keeps you out of trouble and she wont have a choice in it.
Oddly enough using this analogy I convinced most of my HS teachers and even a couple ministers that it wasn't a bad game at all. This was in a close minded christian town of 2000 or so, very very close minded. Some other things to get across is that it is perceived as bad by people who know nothing of the game, and have never tried it. Try to stress that this view makes players feel outcasted. Point out that it is more of a social event that safely stimulates the mind... as compared to going to a movie or playing a video game (not that I discourage these actions hehe). Another point that I read once is that D&D players often are less prone to suicide (truthfully I believe most D&D players are just more stable people). Basically I think that you have to convince her that it is a positive game that stimulates the use of the mind, I found that the book analogy works best, but it might not for you. As for hiding it in the first place I disagree... if found out then, if would probably have become a bigger deal "High school students playing satanic games in secret" or some such BS. Confront her, explain why the game is good, explain that it's better than you being on the streets getting drunk or doing drugs. A much healthier habit. Basically say it keeps you out of trouble and she wont have a choice in it.
VagabondDM
First Post
Some of the suggestions
I have only this to add to the current discussion.
For those of you who suggested either ignoring her decision or tricking her into reversing it. You are confirming her worst fears in regards to roleplaying games and their effect on young adults. Regardless of any other intentions you are encouraging him to engage in activities that are deemed socially unacceptable.
My suggestion would be to approach this calmly, rationally and with as much honesty as you can muster. Set yourself as a living example of the results of our hobby for your AP to see. it may not do you any good now, but in the end you may be able to change her opinion of the game.
I have only this to add to the current discussion.
For those of you who suggested either ignoring her decision or tricking her into reversing it. You are confirming her worst fears in regards to roleplaying games and their effect on young adults. Regardless of any other intentions you are encouraging him to engage in activities that are deemed socially unacceptable.
My suggestion would be to approach this calmly, rationally and with as much honesty as you can muster. Set yourself as a living example of the results of our hobby for your AP to see. it may not do you any good now, but in the end you may be able to change her opinion of the game.
Note - not a good way of explainging things but humourous to think about. (insert warning to the humour impaired here)
1. Hit them with a Bible or similar heavy book (math textbook, bibles used should be the Big Old Family editions and not the small pocket sized versions, only combined Old+New Testaments need be used, etc).
2. Hit them with a game book (but not HERO 5th).
3. Ask them which hurts less.
If evil involves pain and harm to others then it follows that things that are more painful, that inflict more harm are therefore more evil. Seeing as how you knocked them cold with the larger book, while the lighter one merely stung the propensity for harm, for evil, is lessened.
After all, if a student goes Columbine and he has a book in his or her hands, then they can do far less damage with the gaming book than with the heavier one.
It's simple logic!
- Ma'at
1. Hit them with a Bible or similar heavy book (math textbook, bibles used should be the Big Old Family editions and not the small pocket sized versions, only combined Old+New Testaments need be used, etc).
2. Hit them with a game book (but not HERO 5th).
3. Ask them which hurts less.
If evil involves pain and harm to others then it follows that things that are more painful, that inflict more harm are therefore more evil. Seeing as how you knocked them cold with the larger book, while the lighter one merely stung the propensity for harm, for evil, is lessened.
After all, if a student goes Columbine and he has a book in his or her hands, then they can do far less damage with the gaming book than with the heavier one.
It's simple logic!
- Ma'at
boxstop7
First Post
After reading this, my opinion of the situation changes somewhat. Well, let's be honest. It changes a whole lot. If she is seriously trying to pull stunts like this, I would most assuredly heed mythago's advice on investigating the Equal Access Act and contacting your local branch of the ACLU. Disallowing your right to play D&D out of ignorant fear is one thing. Disallowing people to wear their hair in a manner of their choosing (a subject that is quite near and dear to my heart) is taking away ANY rights a person may have to individuality. It sounds to me like this woman is simply an ignorant, close-minded (if not ethno-centric) *@!% who's trying to force her will and ideals upon the school. If the Principal allows it to happen, he's merely a pawn to her game. In my experience, there's NOTHING that people like your AP hate more than the sound of the ACLU heard approaching. That sounds means that she's finally gone too far. It means that she's going to have to accept other peoples' beliefs and ideas, and she won't have a choice in the matter. A lot of people rail the ACLU as being a hard-core leftist organization. Not true. They defend *everyone's* rights. But in this case, it will appear leftist since you're fighting a hard-core right-winger. At any rate, I'm just ranting now. I really think that this is your best option, but you've still got to approach it with the same attitude as with everything else: patience, humility and wisdom. Re-read mythago's post and investigate those options, only when you go make sure you include the hoody/haircut limitations as well. It'll only strengthen your case. But the key is prudence!
Keep us posted!
~Box
EDIT: Cleaned up my cursing...I'm trying to keep it clean, folks!
Last edited:
AngelTears
First Post
I just want to wish you luck, Trevalon Moonleirion with the gaming club.
Even by making inroads in your last year in high-school, you are setting up a possibility that someone else may take up the chance to continue where you left off. Generating positive attitudes by your behaviour, not only will strengthen a good out-look in gaming from those who don't game, but will let you have possibilities in life that might aid you later on.
-Angel Tears
Even by making inroads in your last year in high-school, you are setting up a possibility that someone else may take up the chance to continue where you left off. Generating positive attitudes by your behaviour, not only will strengthen a good out-look in gaming from those who don't game, but will let you have possibilities in life that might aid you later on.
-Angel Tears
...
if your AP is religious, find out if her "research" comes from religious sources. Get something on paper. If that's the case, go to the SUPERINTENDENT about forced religion, and if HE doesn't listen, then you file a legal petition. It may seem like too much trouble over a game, but it's time to send a message
... God never said D&D was evil, and contrart to religious belief, D&D does not preach sorcery. Heck, there are people who play even magic-less campaigns out there! The game is whatever the DM makes it, plain and simple.
... [Religious zealots] try to stick THEIR petty beliefs down our throats. I believe in God and I worship him my own way, Brandon Harwellism I will call it.
...
Know your creator, know that there is a power greater than you, and treat all other good people with respect while doing everything in your power to stop the spread of evil. That's all. If it don't hurt any innocent people, it's okay, plain and simple. I'm just sick and tired of the religious nuyts trying to control the lives of people.
I had to edit out parts of this post; sorry, religious arguments aren't allowed in EN World.
- Darkness
if your AP is religious, find out if her "research" comes from religious sources. Get something on paper. If that's the case, go to the SUPERINTENDENT about forced religion, and if HE doesn't listen, then you file a legal petition. It may seem like too much trouble over a game, but it's time to send a message
... God never said D&D was evil, and contrart to religious belief, D&D does not preach sorcery. Heck, there are people who play even magic-less campaigns out there! The game is whatever the DM makes it, plain and simple.
... [Religious zealots] try to stick THEIR petty beliefs down our throats. I believe in God and I worship him my own way, Brandon Harwellism I will call it.
...
Know your creator, know that there is a power greater than you, and treat all other good people with respect while doing everything in your power to stop the spread of evil. That's all. If it don't hurt any innocent people, it's okay, plain and simple. I'm just sick and tired of the religious nuyts trying to control the lives of people.
I had to edit out parts of this post; sorry, religious arguments aren't allowed in EN World.
- Darkness
Last edited by a moderator:
boxstop7 said:
After reading this, my opinion of the situation changes somewhat. Well, let's be honest. It changes a whole lot. If she is seriously trying to pull stunts like this, I would most assuredly heed mythago's advice on investigating the Equal Access Act and contacting your local branch of the ACLU. Disallowing your right to play D&D out of ignorant fear is one thing. Disallowing people to wear their hair in a manner of their choosing (a subject that is quite near and dear to my heart) is taking away ANY rights a person may have to individuality. It sounds to me like this woman is simply an ignorant, close-minded (if not ethno-centric) *@!% who's trying to force her will and ideals upon the school. If the Principal allows it to happen, he's merely a pawn to her game. In my experience, there's NOTHING that people like your AP hate more than the sound of the ACLU heard approaching. That sounds means that she's finally gone too far. It means that she's going to have to accept other peoples' beliefs and ideas, and she won't have a choice in the matter. A lot of people rail the ACLU as being a hard-core leftist organization. Not true. They defend *everyone's* rights. But in this case, it will appear leftist since you're fighting a hard-core right-winger. At any rate, I'm just ranting now. I really think that this is your best option, but you've still got to approach it with the same attitude as with everything else: patience, humility and wisdom. Re-read mythago's post and investigate those options, only when you go make sure you include the hoody/haircut limitations as well. It'll only strengthen your case. But the key is prudence!
Keep us posted!
~Box
EDIT: Cleaned up my cursing...I'm trying to keep it clean, folks!
Let's be honest and not use silly symbols. That AP is a total bitch with no brain. People like that MAKE ME SICK.
It would be funny to see one of those nuts coming here and spouting their crap. I would DARE THEM TO. You would get to see a flame war the likes of which has never been seen before as I shred them to pieces.
I don't hurt anybody, so doing what I want to do is a subject I care QUITE A BIT about, and I will defend it.
I don't hurt anybody, so doing what I want to do is a subject I care QUITE A BIT about, and I will defend it.
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