D&D 5E Help me understand & find the fun in OC/neo-trad play...

[Charlaquin]

I mean, the idea of neo-trad is that the GM is no longer an utterly absolute, unquestionable authority. That's what "Rule Zero" cashes out as in trad play: whatever the GM says, goes. Neo-trad opens the possibility that not everything comes from unilateral GM declaration--that there may be rules that bind even the GM. Dungeon World has such rules all over the place, for example, telling me what I must do as GM (even though it's not, properly speaking, neo-trad.)

My understanding of tule zero is, if a rule doesn’t work for you , discard or change it. I would expect such a rule to still exist in a neo-Trad context, but for the “you” who decides whether to use, modify, or discard rules to be the group as a whole.

 

[Shardstone]

Even when that label is very intentionally designed to insult and defame?

Because the reason it's called 'OC' derived from the term 'OC: do not steal', which is a phrase meant to invoke derisions of fan fiction.

Uh, in all RP communities I'm in, OC means Original Character, not Orignal Content, and is used as part of OOC and IC -- Out of Character and In Character.

Sometimes OC is used in a rude way, like calling a character an OC in a form of amateur analysis, but I disagree with your assertion that OC is primarily an insult. At least, not in 2024.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Uh, in all RP communities I'm in, OC means Original Character, not Orignal Content

It still means Original Character in the derogative it was derived from.

but I disagree with your assertion that OC is primarily an insult. At least, not in 2024.

Okay, but it still is.

 

[Shardstone]

It still means Original Character in the derogative it was derived from.


Okay, but it still is.

Sorry, if it offends you that's totally valid, but I have never, ever, ever in the forum RP or fanfic community heard someone use OC as a slur. People tell me about their OCs, calling them OCs, all the time. I even have my nerdier students in my classes come up to me and talk about OCs they've made. Must be a cultural thing.

 

[FrozenNorth]

There is also some shared world-building, IME, with Neo-Trad, though not always (see Free League). This may involve GM advice like "Ask questions, build on answers." You can also see Neo-Trad culture in games coming out of the Matt Mercer wheelhouse: Candela Obscura, Daggerheart, etc.

Side note: I have Forbidden Lands, and I’ve played the intro adventures for the One Ring and Blade Runner. I haven’t really seen the Neo-Trad influence in Free League games, though we haven’t played a campaign and this may reflect the DM.

Can you elaborate on the neo-trad elements of Free League games?

 

[jmartkdr2]

That is why there was the move away from that style towards the Neo-Trad/OC style, and why the systems changed to incorporate that change. Players start to express their characters as people rather than pawns, with their own motivations, and start to value them more. Character actions, based on those motivations, start to affect the plot more. Because the players and story become more invested in the characters, it becomes harder and less arbitrary to kill them. Death becomes the result of bad decisions or multiple bad rolls rather than the plethora of "save or die" effects.

I'd quibble and say that's when Trad started.

Neotrad evolved as the general media landscape changed to more character-focused stories over plot focused stories, ttrpg players followed that trend.

 

[Aldarc]

Side note: I have Forbidden Lands, and I’ve played the intro adventures for the One Ring and Blade Runner. I haven’t really seen the Neo-Trad influence in Free League games, though we haven’t played a campaign and this may reflect the DM.

Can you elaborate on the neo-trad elements of Free League games?

The term Neo-Trad actually came from Free League describing their own games. Tomas Härenstam described Neo-Trad as “it’s got the production values, ease of use and plentiful campaign material of a traditional RPG, combined with the kind of clever and thematic rules design usually found in the indie games."

One example off the top of my mind includes XP. In Forbidden Lands you get XP for doing thematically or narratively appropriate things for your character:

For each of the below questions that you can reply “yes” to, you get one XP:
✥✥ Did you participate in the game session? You get one XP just for being there.
✥✥ Did you travel through at least one hex on the game map that you had not visited before?
✥✥ Did you discover a new adventure site?
✥✥ Did you defeat one or more monsters?
✥✥ Did you find a treasure (1 gold or more)?
✥✥ Did you build a function in your stronghold?
✥✥ Did you activate your Pride?
✥✥ Did you suffer from your Dark Secret?
✥✥ Did you risk your life for another PC?
✥✥ Did you perform an extraordinary action of some kind?

There are similar sorts of questions for gaining XP in a number of other Free League YZE games.

Now I have said elsewhere that I think that the term Neo-Trad has likely drifted from its original meaning from Tomas, though it's still somewhat true: a lot of Neo-Trad games show influence from indie games. One could potentially put this on a spectrum, as Free League's YZE can look pretty Trad when compared to Fabula Ultima, which wears its indie influences on its sleeves.

 

[Charlaquin]

To me, it's a sign of the move to integrate/adopt "indie" methods into an overall more "trad" agenda.

I just don’t understand how an RPG is functional without rule zero, and the fact that its ostensible absence is written off as “self explanatory” is particularly baffling. It certainly didn’t explain itself to me!

 

[Charlaquin]

I can easily see how the GM arbitrarily screwing the players over might not fit into a neotrad agenda. Then again, the GM could just as well fiat things into going their way! A die roll could very well kill a neotrad PC in a meaningless way, after all.

I don’t remember rule 0 being “the DM can arbitrarily screw the players over if they want.”

 

[Charlaquin]

The Golden Rule is certainly something that is being excluded in that blog.

But V:tM would normally be characterised as hyper-trad, rather than neo-trad, at least in its "official" approach to play. When V:tM is listed at the end, I'm not sure if they're referring to 5th ed (which I think is neo-trad - I summon @Campbell to elaborate should he wish to) or the original trad version looked at through a retrospective lens.

Haha my experience with Masquerade and Requiem would have fallen closer to the “Nordic LARP” type, at least from my understanding of the cultures of play model.

EDIT: By rule zero/golden rule the blog is not talking about houseruling; they're talking about the GM suspending action resolution rules when they see fit. (I think we're agreed in this reading of the blog.)

Well that might explain the confusion, cause that’s not what I’ve ever understood rule 0 to mean.