Help me with bonus spells from attribute-boosting items!

[Pielorinho]

Goroshko is a 7th-level druid with a natural 17 wisdom. He just crafted a periapt of wisdom +2, bumping his wisdom up to 19.

My understanding is that he gets a bonus 4th level spell while this item is worn.

However, when he wildshapes, the item becomes inert, dropping his wisdom back to 17. He loses this bonus spell slot.

Suppose he prepares scry and flamestrike as his 4th-level spells. First thing in the morning, he scries on his enemies. He then shifts into an eagle form to do some scouting. Does he lose his flamestrike spell?

Suppose he just prepares scry and leaves his other 4th-level slot empty. He scries and then shifts into an eagle. When he returns to his natural form, does he still have an empty 4th-level slot?

Daniel

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

That's a very good question!
By the rules, I think that:

1- No you wouldn't lose flame strike because you wouldn't have more spell than what you are allowed for a 7th level druid with 17 WIS.

If you still had two 4th level spell prepared when you shapechanged, you would be forced to lose one (your choice).

2-I would say no. You lost the slot for the day.

That being said, as your DM I'd probably make an exception and rule that periapt of wisdom as well as all mental attribute boosting item would remain active while you are shapechanged. It makes thing easier for everyone.

 

[Ywain]

I'm pretty lenient

I agree that the mental stat boosting items are a jypped a bit in this respect. A fighter can take off his belt of giant strength and put it back on and immediately gain the full bonuses. I don't bother with losing bonus spells if an item is taken off (or becomes inert) for reasonably short periods of time.

That being said, an argument could be made that a Wizard doesn't actually have to know a spell once it is prepared. It isn't "memorized" it is mostly cast at the beginning of the day, you only have to be smart enough to complete the casting when it is needed. So if the item is taken off, then the 4th level spell would still be "prepared" but it couldn't be cast because you no longer have the facility to finish the casting. Once you put the item back on you would regain this facility and the prepared spell could be completed (cast).

The same argument, with minor twists, would apply to wisdom based spell-casting. If your deity grants you spells at the begining of the day, she doesn't take them away because your focus, willpower and such decreases -- but you don't have the facility to actually call on that spell until you regain the facility.

Spontaneous casters who rely on Charisma are the easiest to rationalize. They don't prepare or pray for spells in advance, so as soon as their charisma goes up or down available slots are adjusted accordingly.

I don't think that this has to be overcomplicated. Temporarily losing access to spells is inconvenient enough without making casters lose the spells completely.

 

[Pielorinho]

Thanks, folks. Any more opinions? Does anyone know whether there's a definitive rules-answer to this?

My DM has an understandable tendency to err on the side of stinginess with me when it comes to rules-things like this; but if someone has something definitive on this subject, I'd love to see it.

Thanks!
Daniel

 

[Hypersmurf]

Thanks, folks. Any more opinions?

My take on it is that a caster with prepared spells should note which of the spells he's prepared are in the bonus slots granted by the item.

If he loses access to the ability boost, he loses access to the slots. When the ability boost returns, he gets the slots back, but any spells that were prepared in them are lost. He could then take 15 minutes to reprepare them.

An alternative way to look at is is like the way temporary hit points, or hit points granted due to temporary Constitution, are handled.

Temporary hit points are effectively "used first". Modelling on this, then the first spell of a given level that you cast can be assumed to be the "item bonus spell", and if you lose access to the item after that, then it's no big deal.

Hit points due to temporary Con are effectively "used last". Modelling on this, then it doesn't matter how many spells of a given level you've cast - if you've got one left, then it's the one granted by the item's ability boost.

Those are three ideas - I favour the first one. Some other people obviously think it's too harsh

But I'm cruel when it comes to skill points through Int items too, so at least I'm consistent

-Hyp.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Once a spell is prepared it is prepared. No necessity to invent "forgetting" rules.

The caster still is limited by the number of spells per day he may cast based on his primary stat at that moment in time. So he could have 2 prepared 4th level spells in the morning and only be allowed to cast 1 in the afternoon.

I think this saves on the bookkeeping as well as being consistent with the rules.

(The only thing you need to watch for are munchkins who might be tempted to pass around the stat item in the morning. That is an abuse worth making up rules against.)

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Goroshko is a 7th-level druid with a natural 17 wisdom. He just crafted a periapt of wisdom +2, bumping his wisdom up to 19.

My understanding is that he gets a bonus 4th level spell while this item is worn.

However, when he wildshapes, the item becomes inert, dropping his wisdom back to 17. He loses this bonus spell slot.

Are you sure that items that affect mental attributes become inert?

I think that may be something I have to use the Mighty Wand of Rule 0 on.....

--House-Rule Crazy Spikey

 

[Ealli]

The rules I would use if a similar situation came up in my campaign would be similar to the psion's power point rule. Bonus spells are not gained until the item has been worn continuously for 24 hours, bonus spells are not lost until the item has been removed for 24 continuous hours.

 

[Tempuswolf]

I too use the rules for psionics for spellcasters.

Bonus spell slots are "enabled" as if the caster has whatever minimum the governing attribute fell to during the previous 24 hours. Once memorized the spell is not lost unless it is cast (or perhaps some level loss/offensive spell effect comes into play).