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Help with a dual caster progression

Amazing Triangle

First Post
I am currently trying to make a Human Archivist 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Heirophant 2 with the feats:Skill Focus (Concentration), Improved Initiative, Touch of Healing [Reserve], Eschew Materials, Heighten Spell, Acidic Splatter [Reserve], Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Wand.

Granted I know that Mystic Theurge is kind of/severely underpowered but I don't know of another class that would give dual casting that would make the Archivist/Wizard gain as much full casting as possible. I went with it because of the singular casting stat.

Is there anything I could do to make this build better? (AC and HP is really low). Early entry options are out of the question the DM will shut them down. So I am stuck with Divine 3/Arcane 3

Books allowed in the campaign:
Races of...
Complete ....
Cityscape/Dungeonscape
PHB/PHB2

Books not allowed
No Psionics or Tome of Battle

These were some other ideas that I have worked with if any of these are good, please help me with feats.
Secondary Ideas
Elf Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 1/Wild Runner 1/Arcane Heirophant 10
Elf Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Wild Runner 1/Arcane Heirophant 1
Homebrew elf stats:+2 Charisma, +2 Intelligence, –2 Constitution, -2 Strength

Dwarf Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Runecaster 1/Archmage 1 or Hierophant 1 (Armor Casting)

Human Monk 1/Cleric 3/ Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Archmage 1 or Hierophant 1 (unarmored AC boost)

Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated!
 

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stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
You (should) have several spell based options to help your AC:
- mage armor/magic vestments (armor bonus, the latter better)
- barkskin (via a druid scroll) (natural amor bonus)
- cat's grace (Dex)
- shield (shield bonus)
- shield of faith (deflection bonus)
Which are all of the major bonuses, and you can cast them all as a Wiz/Archivist. Scrolls/wands of the same you can all use. Of course, they all take time to set-up.

W/ a level in monk, you get Wisdom bonus to AC, which means owl's wisdom gives an AC boost.

false life is your friend if you desperately need hit points. It lasts a while too.

Those are all possible (except magic vestments) with a pre-theurge.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
It would be a good idea to work in Practiced Spell (Complete Arcane) caster (+4 to your caster level for one of your classes, up to your total HD), and probaby Improved Toughness (Complete Warrior) if you are concerned about hit points.

False Life is a great wizard spell for helping with low hit points, and Aid or Mass Aid is a good clerical spell.
 

Amazing Triangle

First Post
stonegod said:
You (should) have several spell based options to help your AC:
- mage armor/magic vestments (armor bonus, the latter better)
- barkskin (via a druid scroll) (natural amor bonus)
- cat's grace (Dex)
- shield (shield bonus)
- shield of faith (deflection bonus)
Which are all of the major bonuses, and you can cast them all as a Wiz/Archivist. Scrolls/wands of the same you can all use. Of course, they all take time to set-up.

Good to see you Stonegod, I could actually prepare Barkskin. Archivist's are allowed to learn any divine spell, just the majority of them come from the cleric's list. So I could learn Barkskin.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Amazing Triangle said:
Good to see you Stonegod, I could actually prepare Barkskin. Archivist's are allowed to learn any divine spell, just the majority of them come from the cleric's list. So I could learn Barkskin.
Yup. But you have to learn it from a scroll (archivists can only learn spells from the cleric list on level up).
 

Amazing Triangle

First Post
Elf Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 1/Wild Runner 1/Arcane Heirophant 10

Would this be a better build idea? I am not looking to be overpowering I just don't want to die every encounter.
Is there a way to get an Animal Companion?

If any one knows a way to get survival to their class skills please tell me.
 
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rgard

First Post
Amazing Triangle said:
Elf Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 1/Wild Runner 1/Arcane Heirophant 10

Is there a way to get an Animal Companion?

If any one knows a way to get survival to their class skills please tell me.

In Unearthed Arcana, page 58, there is a variant where the wizard loses the familiar, but gets an Animal Companion (as druid, treat sorcer or wizard as a druid of half his class level).

There is a feat someplace (maybe one of the FR books - cosmopolitan feat?) that lets you take 1 cross class skill and make it a class skill for life. Maybe somebody has a better recollection of this feat or one like it.

Thanks,
Rich
 

dirkformica

First Post
Skill Knowledge from Unearthed Arcana allows you to select a skill to permanently be on your class list. Or it can turn two current class skills permanent.
 

Cameron

First Post
If you want the best of both worlds, try the following:

XYZ 6/Rainbow Servant 10

where XYZ is one of the following: Beguiler, Warmage, Dread Necromancer

At level 16, you get everything from both lists, and you have full casting to boot. Sacred Exorcist would even net you Turn Undead (if you are good aligned) or Dread Necromancer would give you Rebuke Undead, which can be used to power DM: Persistent. Either of the above is Cha based, so it synergises with Turn/Rebuke Undead.
 

Amazing Triangle

First Post
rgard said:
In Unearthed Arcana, page 58, there is a variant where the wizard loses the familiar, but gets an Animal Companion (as druid, treat sorcer or wizard as a druid of half his class level).

There is a feat someplace (maybe one of the FR books - cosmopolitan feat?) that lets you take 1 cross class skill and make it a class skill for life. Maybe somebody has a better recollection of this feat or one like it.

Thanks,
Rich

With this I take the variant wizard then take the familiar feat and gain all the benefits of having them both through the Arcane Heirophant, all with out a druid, but with his spells!
 

Votan

Explorer
Cameron said:
If you want the best of both worlds, try the following:

XYZ 6/Rainbow Servant 10

where XYZ is one of the following: Beguiler, Warmage, Dread Necromancer

At level 16, you get everything from both lists, and you have full casting to boot. Sacred Exorcist would even net you Turn Undead (if you are good aligned) or Dread Necromancer would give you Rebuke Undead, which can be used to power DM: Persistent. Either of the above is Cha based, so it synergises with Turn/Rebuke Undead.

Yes, errata clarifies that text overrules the tables making this a very attactive combination once you make it there. :)
 


Cameron

First Post
Darklone said:
Hmm, sorcerer Rainbow Dude ... all spells known ;)?

I know, I know...
No. Sorcerer is different as they don't automatically get all spells known from their list. Only the above three classes get all spells known, which is what that really triggers the capstone (and extra domains) ability of RS.
 

Amazing Triangle

First Post
Wow that really is better especially since the ruling of text trumps table. Hmm..that makes my choices harder.


Warmage 10/Rainbow Servant 10

Beguiler 10/Rainbow Servant 10

Archivist 11/Loremaster 9

Cleric (travel) 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 1/Arcane Heirophant 10/MT 3

This has been really helpful! :)

If anyone has ideas of which one I should play please feel free to say it. If there any feats that your caster has to take, feel free to leave those too. I read and appreciate everyones input.
 
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Votan

Explorer
Amazing Triangle said:
Wow that really is better especially since the ruling of text trumps table. Hmm..that makes my choices harder.


Warmage 10/Rainbow Servant 10

Beguiler 10/Rainbow Servant 10

Archivist 11/Loremaster 9

Cleric (travel) 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 1/Arcane Heirophant 10/MT 3

This has been really helpful! :)

If anyone has ideas of which one I should play please feel free to say it. If there any feats that your caster has to take, feel free to leave those too. I read and appreciate everyones input.


Beguiler 10/Rainbow Servant 10 --> the amazing skill points of this combination are pretty nice and intelligence is a better casting attribute than charmisma in my experience.
 

Cameron

First Post
Votan said:
Beguiler 10/Rainbow Servant 10 --> the amazing skill points of this combination are pretty nice and intelligence is a better casting attribute than charmisma in my experience.
No. Well... yes.

But I prefer Warmage 6/Rainbow Servant 10/Sacred Exorcist 4. It opens up the Divine Metamagic: Persistent tree and Cha as the casting stat plays directly into it in a pretty sweet synergy.

Alternatively, Dread Necro 6/Rainbow Servant 10/Fiendblooded 4 is also good, but Dread Necro duplicates a lot of the Cleric spells.

Lastly, there is always Cleric 1/Warmage 4/Dweomerkeeper 2/Rainbow Servant 10/Dweomerkeeper 3. You lose a caster level, but you get a ton of other goodies to compensate, the least of which is supernatural spells. Take Extra Spell to get Wish and go to town. With the Magic and Spell domains, you practically get Dweomerkeeper for free anyways.

By the way, nothing spells "tank" like Righteous Might, Divine Power and Bite of the Werebear in one shiny persisted package... :D
 

rgard

First Post
Amazing Triangle said:
With this I take the variant wizard then take the familiar feat and gain all the benefits of having them both through the Arcane Heirophant, all with out a druid, but with his spells!

Sounds good, but maybe I misunderstand you...you still take 3 levels of druid prior to Arcane Heirophant, right?
 

Amazing Triangle

First Post
rgard said:
Sounds good, but maybe I misunderstand you...you still take 3 levels of druid prior to Arcane Heirophant, right?

Nope with Wild Runner you get trackless step. It would be a strange build.

Beguiler is new to me but it seems very neat flavor wise.

Thank you so much!

I have narrowed it down:
Archivist 10/Loremaster 10 ~The studious sage that looks for all ancient texts that he can get his hands on to enhance his life and to help others.

Beguiler 10/Rainbow Servant 10 ~ The peacemaker who through contact with couatls has learned new methods to make people hear his words.
 

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