Help with Manyshot

[Plane Sailing]

I'm afraid allowing them to work together can only be a House Rule, in this case.

You say that like it's a bad thing

 

[Hypersmurf]

So I guess it is, because I don't agree with a lot of what Mr Collins says. Mr Collins is rapidly turning into my most popular object of ire.

Well, I agree with the sentiment... but not in this case.

Since he wrote the feat, and since the language he used supports his interpretation, I'm not sure where the problem is.

It's not like he's changing the way an existing feat works, or espousing an interpretation at odds with the written rules (in this case, anyway).

He decided he didn't want the feat to work with Shot on the Run, and he wrote the feat to include that restriction.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You say that like it's a bad thing

More... I say that like it's a thing that should always be acknowledged.

I find it irritating when an FAQ contradicts the rules as written. I don't mind it, however, if the FAQ says "The text is in error; it should read as follows:" before contradicting the rules as written.

I feel the same way about House Rules. "You can use Shot on the Run with Manyshot" is incorrect and misleading. "I have a House Rule that you can use Shot on the Run with Manyshot" is neither, and I have no problem with it.

-Hyp.

 

[Bozidar]

Hyp and others -- thanks so much for your help Makes sense now..


but it doesn't seem like a very powerful feat, IMO.

If you look at the ranger progression, the 2-weapon style ranger gets improved 2-weapon fighting at the same time the archer ranger gets this feat. the melee ranger gets another melee attack per round with his feat, and the archer ranger gets basically a "power attack"'d bow shot that can't be used in full-round attacks. a little unfair for the archer ranger, but such is life

Thanks again, it's perfectly clear now

 

[Plane Sailing]

but it doesn't seem like a very powerful feat, IMO.

If you look at the ranger progression, the 2-weapon style ranger gets improved 2-weapon fighting at the same time the archer ranger gets this feat. the melee ranger gets another melee attack per round with his feat, and the archer ranger gets basically a "power attack"'d bow shot that can't be used in full-round attacks. a little unfair for the archer ranger, but such is life

I think you are misreading it when you are making your comparison - the TWF only gets the extra attack when they make a full attack and are toe to toe with the enemy, Manyshot allows the ranger to make an attack for double damage and unless I misread it (which is possible, of course) that means that you add in twice not just the arrow die but also any appropriate strength and, crucially, favoured enemy damage.

So with manyshot a ranger could move and take a shot doing, as an example, 1d8+2 (str) +1 (magic) +4 (favoured enemy) twice - i.e. 2d8+14 without having to seriously optimse, just for a cost of -4 to hit. I

As a ranger I think I'd be better off with that than I would with the improved TWF in most cases... more tactical solutions open up.

Cheers

 

[CrimsonTemplar]

Hyp and others -- thanks so much for your help Makes sense now..


but it doesn't seem like a very powerful feat, IMO.

If you look at the ranger progression, the 2-weapon style ranger gets improved 2-weapon fighting at the same time the archer ranger gets this feat. the melee ranger gets another melee attack per round with his feat, and the archer ranger gets basically a "power attack"'d bow shot that can't be used in full-round attacks. a little unfair for the archer ranger, but such is life

Consider this...

Full Attack action:

Melee Ranger with TWF & ITWF gets 4 attacks per round

Archer Ranger with Rapid Shot (and Manyshot) gets 3 attacks per round

Standard action:

Melee Ranger with TWF & ITWF gets 1 attack per round with a move-equivalent

Archer Ranger with Manyshot (and Rapid Shot) gets 1 attack per round for 2 arrows with a move-equivalent

So an Archer Ranger will do fewer attacks as a Full Attack action, but will be much better at moving and shooting, thus dealing better with the problem most archers face...being too static for their own good.

 

[Nail]

......favoured enemy damage.....

I believe that's precision-based damage, and thus not added twice.

The strength and magical bonuses are added twice, no question.

 

[Nail]

but it doesn't seem like a very powerful feat, IMO.

Compared to an equally leveled rogue doing a sneak attack, Manyshot does more average damage per round.

It is an excellent ability, and really puts the two-weapon fighting style option for a ranger on the second tier.

 

[Camarath]

I believe that's precision-based damage, and thus not added twice.

I don't believe that the Favored Enemy bonus damage is precision-based in 3.5 since it affects creatures immune to criticals.

 

[Thanee]

I'm not sure about the Manyshot feat, but in general I think it's rather weak.

It was quite strong in 3.0 because of Haste, but now you can use it only once, the only advantage is during surprise rounds and if you have to move and shoot in the same turn. If you happen to find yourself in these situations often, then it's certainly better than Rapid Shot, but otherwise I wouldn't really care too much about Manyshot.

Bye
Thanee