D&D 5E Here's why we want a Psion class

[Fenris-77]

Here's an idea: your die can't be below d4, but each time you roll a 4 you gain a level of exhaustion.

Something like that could work. It would be cool if there was some part of the mechanics that reflected the inner source of psionics and allowed the character to push themselves to perform at the risk of consequences, ideally on a sliding scale. The harder you push the further you might fall.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I just mean that counterspell is somewhere already nullified by innate spell casting of monster, sorcerer subtle casting, exceeding range, invisible caster, classes or subclasses abilities that look like spell but aren’t, and not forget that all counterspell is a complete gamble, so yes psionic can just grow up the list of situation where counterspell is useless.

I personally hold that making a spell impossible to counterspell is not the most powerful effect of removing VSM components from it.

The most powerful effect of removing VSM components is the fact that no one can tell that you're casting a spell. It is effective in combat, by making you seem like just a bystander and not a threat, but it is even more effective out of combat, in social situations.

 

[Maxperson]

Currently the rules state that without V.S.M. components, the casting of a spell cannot be detected. Therefore it could not be counterspelled.

Therefore, if I put in the ability to detect a "spell" without VSM during casting, it CAN be detected and CAN be counterspelled.

Perhaps introducing a new component that psionic abilities manifest when used, is the answer if you want spells with no VSM components to be counterspellable. Whether it reveals itself as the psychic's eyes glowing, ectoplasm covering the psion, or everyone within 60ft tasting pineapple, it provides a cue that psychic shenanigans are afoot.

Wish I would have thought of that.

So when you say "full caster" you are referring to what a class spends most of its actions doing, and how it contributes to the party success, rather than needing the traditional 9-spell level structure of a wizard or cleric?

Using the 9 spell level structure is the easiest way. The Psion class should have access to powers/spells and be able to use them as their primary function, just like any other class that is a full caster. Something similar to the 2e version would also be acceptable.

So a class that used its magical/psychic abilities most of the time (as opposed to using skills and weapons for example) would be one that you consider a full caster, whether those were from 9-levels of spell slots, or from a different power structure. - Its the fact that the power of the class is rooted in those special abilities like a cleric's is in their spells, rather than a paladin, whose special powers are combined with more mundane actions?

If it functions similarly to 2e or 3e, that's fine. If they are just class abilities like the subclasses just released, that would not be a "full caster."

 

[Maxperson]

Here's an idea: your die can't be below d4, but each time you roll a 4 you gain a level of exhaustion.

That's an interesting idea. I kind of like it.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Here's an idea: your die can't be below d4, but each time you roll a 4 you gain a level of exhaustion.

looks at Frenzy barbarian.

Look, I know I'm crapping on psionics a lot, but I do want it, and I want it to be functional.

 

[Fenris-77]

looks at Frenzy barbarian.

Look, I know I'm crapping on psionics a lot, but I do want it, and I want it to be functional.

There's a difference, the frenzy barbarian get a level of exhaustion for using his core mechanic every time he uses it. The suggestion above would limit exhaustion to cases of over use, rather than every use. There's also lots of design room to expand on the single exhaustion condition presented in the PHB.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

There's a difference, the frenzy barbarian get a level of exhaustion for using his core mechanic every time he uses it. The suggestion above would limit exhaustion to cases of over use, rather than every use. There's also lots of design room to expand on the single exhaustion condition presented in the PHB.

Of course.

But, the same with the Frenzy barbarian, if you put a penalty in the class that revolves around Exhaustion (probably because of the Frenzy barbarian), people are going to ignore it, regardless of any other positive benefit (like mindless rage/retaliation in the frenzy barbarian)

 

[Guest 6801328]

Of course.

But, the same with the Frenzy barbarian, if you put a penalty in the class that revolves around Exhaustion (probably because of the Frenzy barbarian), people are going to ignore it, regardless of any other positive benefit (like mindless rage/retaliation in the frenzy barbarian)

Win-win.

(kidding!)

 

[Fenris-77]

Of course.

But, the same with the Frenzy barbarian, if you put a penalty in the class that revolves around Exhaustion (probably because of the Frenzy barbarian), people are going to ignore it, regardless of any other positive benefit (like mindless rage/retaliation in the frenzy barbarian)

Yeah, you'll always have that small contingent of naysayers. Those people are mostly beyond reason so I don't fash myself about them. In this case, the suggestion is akin to allowing wizards to risk exhaustion and/or other harm to continue to cast spells after they are out of slots, which I think most players would jump at. The context matters a lot. The mechanic could also be called something else, fatigue say, so as to dodge the whole sticky siutuation.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Yeah, you'll always have that small contingent of naysayers. Those people are mostly beyond reason so I don't fash myself about them. In this case, the suggestion is akin to allowing wizards to risk exhaustion and/or other harm to continue to cast spells after they are out of slots, which I think most players would jump at. The context matters a lot. The mechanic could also be called something else, fatigue say, so as to dodge the whole sticky siutuation.

Doesn't Overchannel do something like that? But with damage instead of exhaustion?