[Heroes of Battle] Dread Commando's group initiative bonus--too good?

[ForceUser]

Greetings.

One of my players has expressed interest in playing a dread commando, from Heroes of Battle. I don't own the book, but as I briefly scanned over the prestige class I saw a class feature that took me aback. I don't recall the name, but essentially it allows the dread commando to grant his entire party an intiative bonus equal to his dread commando class level. As a five level class this is significant; by 5th level you're practically guaranteeing that your group, on the balance, will act first in many combats. If you combine this power with Improved Initiative and a high (say, 18) Dexterity score, you could have a character routinely gain a +13 bonus to his initiative! As the game progresses through the higher levels, initiative becomes more and more crucial to survival--very high level combat encounters can be won or lost depending on who acts first in the first round of combat.

My concern is this: is this class feature too good? My gut says yes, but I have no experience with the class. Any input is appreciated.

 

[Shin Okada]

Importance of Initiative is very situational. It will depend largely on how many individuals are in each side of groups, how far the encounter distance is, how clear the initial line of sight is, how effective area attacks are, how fast each combatants can move, etc, etc. And high initiative does not help you much when you are surprised (though still better to have higher number).

IMHO, +5 initiative bonuses is no stronger than +5 will save bonus to entire party (Outcast Champion) or various auras of Marshal class.

 

[dedicated]

Yeah,
I think your placing to much faith in the conception that initiative is all important here.
This can be overcome by suprise rounds, and even a well planned out battlefield that limits lines of sight and movement. If someone takes this prestige class, merely become creative in allowing it to be good without becoming all-important.

 

[Torx]

I foolishly allowed a Marshall cohort for one of my PCs Leadship feat. He eventually had the cohort's Charisma up to a +8 bonus to everyone's initiative for every battle. We might as well have rolled group initiative like back in the old days, because the effect was the same. The PCs always went first and their opponents always went second. And I can confirm that at high-level play, winning initiative in every combat made a significant difference for the survivability of the party. I eventually had to resort to waves of foes or common surprise rounds to negate this advantage.

 

[dvvega]

As Shin stated initiative is not the be all and end all of combat.

In fact it is only "vital" for the first round if you're up against a foe you must kill quickly. After that its advantage is lost.

The only time this initiative bonus will mean something is if they can collectively kill the opponent with one round's activities each.

If this is the case, use tougher monsters, faster monsters, or even monsters that could concievably be dread commandos themselves. Think of a pack of trolls who hunt their prey through guile and surprise as opposed to straight out combat. Their leader is in fact a dread commando and his influence is obvious.

D

 

[Spatula]

As Shin stated initiative is not the be all and end all of combat.

In fact it is only "vital" for the first round if you're up against a foe you must kill quickly. After that its advantage is lost.

The only time this initiative bonus will mean something is if they can collectively kill the opponent with one round's activities each.

Which is the sort of situation that you get with high-level play, hence the concern.

 

[Derren]

Initative is everything at higher levels.
So yes, it is very powerfull, possibly overpowered.

But thats what I came to expect from newer WotC products.

 

[glass]

Initative is everything at higher levels.
So yes, it is very powerfull, possibly overpowered.

On the plus size, the fact that it affects the whole party means that it is relatively easy to deal with. You can just give more foes improved initiative, and you don't have to worry about overpowering the rest of the group because it affects everybody.


glass.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Even with a +5 or +8 bonus, most of the time PCs will still be below 20. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Every player is rolling initiative individually so you're going to get a spread. If it was a group initiative roll, then it might be a little worse.

 

[dvvega]

I've personally never had high-level initiative problems.

Granted high-level in my last campaign stopped at around 16th, however even then it wasn't always the PCs winning. They sometimes rolled badly, certain monsters I used were designed to last one or two rounds without problems.

One thing of note ... do you use the standard encounter distance chart? Or are all combats starting toe to toe. A Beholder for example starting 200 feet away has a decided advantage, initiative or otherwise.

D