[Heroes of Battle] Dread Commando's group initiative bonus--too good?

[apesamongus]

I foolishly allowed a Marshall cohort for one of my PCs Leadship feat. He eventually had the cohort's Charisma up to a +8 bonus to everyone's initiative for every battle.

That's especially disgusting, because after initiative is rolled, you can switch to a different aura freely without losing the benefit - after all, you only roll initiative once.
Fortunately my groups martial cohort hasn't taken that one yet - but that +8 damage while flanking is adding up quite often. I mean, one crit with a X3 weapon is an extra 24 damage right there. If our power attacking mercurial greatsword wielder gets a crit while flanking things get ugly.

Honestly, I think the minor auras are just flat better than the major ones because they scale with the charisma score and not just level.

 

[dvvega]

Fortunately my groups martial cohort hasn't taken that one yet - but that +8 damage while flanking is adding up quite often. I mean, one crit with a X3 weapon is an extra 24 damage right there. If our power attacking mercurial greatsword wielder gets a crit while flanking things get ugly.

Ummm ... you shouldn't be multiplying that +8 damage as far as I know ... it is a flat out bonus. Don't have my book with me here at work to confirm.

D

 

[Sithobi1]

You multiply everything when you crit, except bonus damage DICE. +8 is definitely not dice.

 

[dvvega]

I was referring to the wording of the aura. I thought it was worded in such a way that it was added on after all calculations -=shrug=-. I really need to work out how to have my books at work

D

 

[dvvega]

Okay I reread the marshall's auras last night ..

1. How on earth do they have +8 damage while flanking? Or does the marshall have a Charisma of 26? Remember Minor and Major Auras don't stack.

2. From the SRD

A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.

Exception: Extra damage over and above a weapon’s normal damage is not multiplied when you score a critical hit.

Now the marshall's aura I believe (once again no book) states that you do additional damage to that rolled by the weapon. So it does not modify the normal damage done by the weapon it just gives you a bonus, thus it isn't multiplied. The Exception is not limited to Dice of bonus damage like sneak attack.

As opposed to an enhancement bonus which modifies the actual weapon.

D

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Exception is not limited to Dice of bonus damage like sneak attack.

Yeah, it is - there's a word missing from that line in the PHB. Elsewhere in the core rules, the same phrase appears, but as "Extra damage dice over and above...".

It's a very unfortunate and misleading typo.

-Hyp.

 

[Brain]

My concern is this: is this class feature too good? My gut says yes, but I have no experience with the class. Any input is appreciated.

One thing about the class feature is that it says that allies that can see you within 30 feet gain the bonus. As a Dread Commando, there are lots of situations where the others will be out of range or can't see you. I think its an okay class ability.

 

[dvvega]

Been away for a while but wanted to post regarding the Auras thing since it is important to get this straight:

Hypersmurf: I was quoting from the SRD, combat section, so which part of the SRD has the alternate version? And has it been made official that one supersedes the other?

Thanks
D

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hypersmurf: I was quoting from the SRD, combat section, so which part of the SRD has the alternate version? And has it been made official that one supersedes the other?

Look under Combat: Damage: Multiplying Damage.
Multiplying Damage: Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results. Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage.

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied.

Look in the PHB Glossary under [glossary]critical hit[/glossary]:
critical hit: A hit that strikes a vital area and therefore deals double damage or more. To score a critical hit (crit), an attacker must first score a threat (usually a natural 20 on an attack roll) and then succeed on a critical roll (just like another attack roll). Critical hit damage is usually double damage, which means rolling damage twice, just as if the attacker had actually hit the defender two times. (Any extra damage dice, such as from a rogue's sneak attack, are not rolled multiple times, but are added to the total at the end of the calculation.)

There's nothing stating "p134 and p306 are correct; p140 is incorrect", but a/ it's the way it worked in 3E; b/ it's two references vs one reference; and c/ it's the way every published example you'll find is calculated.

-Hyp.

 

[dvvega]

Thanks for that ... ah well then the way I play it has been House Rules for a while then.

Or this is a case where the single isolated case is right and all the calculations done are based on the wrong cases

D