Heroes of Shadow

[Klaus]

I have noticed in the book a few necrotic powers are actually two damage types, notably fire+necrotic and cold+necrotic (blackguard). It's mostly just unfortunate for anyone wanting to pinch necrotic stuff outside of those in the book.

Now I think of it, was there stuff that you made or wanted to make that you didn't get into the book? Anything you'd like to revisit in future if you got the chance?

In my original design, the Vryloka were said to hail from the same lands as the Vistani. Each group recognized the other on sight, and a crime against the other group was considered a crime against both. I think that connection helped ground both races into the world. I'm happy that the enmity between shade and shadar-kai is still there.

Also, this is in no way official, but to me the Red Witch is

Spoiler

Wee Jas

.

I just wish the book had room for the other PPs and EDs. I loved a couple of them (including the erroneously previewed Black Hound).

 

[Aegeri]

I never got to see the Black Hound preview. It got shanked and removed from the internet before I could see it. Sounded interesting though.

 

[Klaus]

I never got to see the Black Hound preview. It got shanked and removed from the internet before I could see it. Sounded interesting though.

The main inspiration for the mechanics was the Vadalis Griffonmaster. You gained a shadow hound beast companion, and you gained shadow hound-like abilities as you levelled. Think of Solomon Kane walking the countryside with the Hound of the Baskervilles in tow.

 

[Neonchameleon]

My question re: the Vampire

Do you think WotC would be open to Dragon articles to expand what is obviously a fairly limited character selection?

Not very. When I submitted an article proposal with two potential new weapon groups for the Assassin they said they weren't looking for new builds. (I did much the same with Changelings a few months before and they said they didn't want any more Winning Races crunch)

 

[Jhaelen]

If the shade granted Skill Focus to those that already get the training, that'd be a +14 at level one, making Stealth rolls a non-issue (since you only have to roll higher than passive Perception to become hidden).

That's why I wrote it would be an underwhelming solution.

The thing is, I absolutely _hate_ not getting the full benefit out of something. Just like I would never take two feats that both granted a +1 feat bonus to attack, I would never play a Shade and take a class that automatically gets Stealth training. Unfortunately, the two classes that do would otherwise be the perfect fit for the race. That's why I consider it to be such a bad design decision.
I may not be an optimizer in the CO sense but such things do bother me.

Anyway, I've now read the complete race chapter and I've been wondering why there are no new backgrounds in the book? To be honest I would have preferred that to the two flavour pieces given for each of the HotFL races.

Are backgrounds out of fashion in these post-Essentials days?

That would be a pity since I've found them to be the best inspiration for creating a unique and interesting character. It's one of the many disadvantages of the new Online Character Builder vs. the old one: In the old one you could choose as many of them as you liked. I generally picked three as the seeds for my character's story.

It's almost like a random background generator: Pick any three and try to make sense of it and create a believable story. It's really fun!

Does anyone know if the Gloomwrought box will contain any player material? Or will it be purely for the DM?

 

[Klaus]

Sorry, I don't know anything about Gloomwrought.

As for "wasting" a racial benefit: I suppose you don't like that dwarves get free weapon proficiencies that are wasted on Fighters.

Like I said, shade does offer neat stuff for rogues and assassins, but instead of being in the "gray box", those benefits are in the racial utilities. And the race still offers a racial +2 to Stealth.

 

[MrMyth]

Sorry, I don't know anything about Gloomwrought.

As for "wasting" a racial benefit: I suppose you don't like that dwarves get free weapon proficiencies that are wasted on Fighters.

Generally not, since it comes as one of several benefits, along with potent racial feats and a strong racial ability, rather than one of only two benefits, accompanied by no racial feats, a very weak racial power, a significant racial downside... and the only actual racial benefit not actually providing a direct bonus, just giving you more options for utility powers at higher levels.

Sorry, Klaus. The flavor is certainly there, but in terms of mechanics and design, the race remains a vast, vast let-down.

 

[Klaus]

Generally not, since it comes as one of several benefits, along with potent racial feats and a strong racial ability, rather than one of only two benefits, accompanied by no racial feats, a very weak racial power, a significant racial downside... and the only actual racial benefit not actually providing a direct bonus, just giving you more options for utility powers at higher levels.

Sorry, Klaus. The flavor is certainly there, but in terms of mechanics and design, the race remains a vast, vast let-down.

No need to apologize. As I've said upthread, the shade changed quite a bit from its initial intent.

 

[Aegeri]

Dwarves are in a different league to most races in the game, having one of the strongest core benefits of any race with their resistance to forced movement (almost essential for a Knight).

The problem with the shade is that while it has some features that are desirable, such as their darkvision they are mitigated heavily by how mechanically unsound the racial power is as a standard action. It is very easy to see the logic behind it as a minor or even a move action, but a standard action is too much of a sink to be useful. Additionally they get this entirely pointless -1 surge penalty, which really adds significant insult to injury on an incredibly underpowered race. When you throw on not getting any benefit out of what limited things you do get, it's simply maddening.

While some of the utility powers do have merit, the point of the matter is these have to compete with the utility powers of numerous classes. Some of these competitions the utility powers aren't going to win, because there are a lot of solid rogue utilities. In other cases of course they might be very good, the )Assassin for example doesn't have a lot of good choices. In the end though, utility powers can't save a race because they aren't benefits you get for free: They're just other options that you can use to replace standard utility powers.

The other problem is the logic that the shade was this badly 'gimped' (for lack of a better word) on the basis of non-combat utility. This of course had absolutely nothing to do with Klaus (for emphasis). Yet the stealth rules outside of combat - as I mentioned before - are amazingly reasonable about granting you stealth. In combat they are sadistic and brutal, often being extremely difficult to maintain stealth. Outside of it they are far more relaxed and I've still yet to come up with a coherent situation where it is useful. Especially without doing things I would never do in order to sabotage a normal characters stealth (and thus make the racial useful).

Edit: I forgot to italicize the "essential" before Knight in my first sentence. You know, to be edgy and ironic and stuff.

 

[Klaus]

I see what you're saying (no, I really do, I'm reading it on a screen! ). I think the action pendulum swung too much to the other end of the spectrum with the racial power (that problem *can* be sidestepped with careful building and playing), but the rest (including the surge penalty) made sense in the original intent of the race.