Heroes Season [Volume] 1(#23)---5/21/07-'How to stop an Exploding Man' Season Ending.

DonTadow said:
I"m basing my opinion on the actual tactical knowledge of the basic human person.
Why do you keep bringing up the "tactics" strawman? I'm not talking great forethought, I'm saying "it's Sylar, freeze time!" or maybe "It's Sylar, turn invisible!", heck maybe "It's Sylar, read his mind!"

Basically, I wanted immediate action that made sense. Instead, people stared while others acted.

This is the basic flaw in this argument. It has only been a few months. We never saw ONE single training montage with any of them and their powers. There was some training with Peter, but not any of them. YOu're thinking of this as 9 months of training because the show was on for nine months, but, and someone can correct me, isnt the timeline of the show about 3 months (maybe less).

First off, it's bad form to explain to someone what they are thinking, especially when you are wrong.
Secondly, Peter's training was worthless.
Thirdly, I didn't say training, certainly not Montage level training.

The people have been through a lot in a short time period. Peter has seen people die, Bennet just shot a very old friend moments before, and Eve's lose should have mattered some little bit. Nikki's husband just murdered a guy, she knocked out Candace, and her alterego has murdered many. In that time, they have not advanced at all, Peter is still the same guy he was (with more powers), and Nikki still needs convincing every 3 minutes that she's strong.

They weren't waiting turns, they were waiting for someone else to do something or waiting for a chance for them to do something. They are not a tactical team. They aren't even a team. I could very well see why it would take someone a minute to digest A. should i help and B. what should I do. YOu see this everyday. Google 91 year old man carjacking Detroit and see what i am talking about. People always say "what i would have done" but in the situation you're a different person without the training of what to do.

You can't judge how someone will act, true. That doesn't mean everyone does nothing. That means it's unpredictable. The scene took probably 10 minutes, with long stretchs of posturing and threatening. When they DO decide to act, they don't follow though, but instead hit once and move back.


No ones inserting unseen scenes. I"m talking about logic. What is the more likely thought. This is only an hour show. The producers can't put every basic assumption on the screen. If you see HG at the paperfactory during one scene and at home another, its safe to assume he drove there. Do you need that scene to figure it out?
You are inserting scene's, things that are not shown on the show, and calling your scene's logical extensions of what was shown. Then you decide that my inserted scene's are illogical. This is where opinion comes in.

Same here, we obviously see that Parkman doesn't know about Sylars powers. We are safe to assume that Parkman has not figured out that he cant' shoot sylar (considering this is the third time he's done it). Because of the likelihood of a bullet missing at long distances and other intangibles, its more logical for a non-informed about sylar individual to believe there was some other reason, other than telekinesis, why the bullet did not hit sylar. Who is thinking "this guy has telkenetics". Only the tv watcher who knows that. Why would they have a long talk about sylar. What catalyst would have brought in on. The evidence states that parkman does not know much about sylar, so the long talk is illogical. Your logic stream is flawed because of a lack of this catalyst. Why would HG discuss the superpowers of Sylar and everyone else when it has nothing to do with their immiediate mission.
We don't know that he doesn't know about Sylar's powers. We don't know that he does. It is perfectly logical to me that he would raise the subject of Sylar at some point, especially given his reaction when he learns Sylar is there. He is not Scully. He's not a disbeliever. He can read minds and knows powers exist. If we're assuming that Parkman didn't know, it is easier to just assume he is dumb, and things a gun solves everything.

Or, the easier way, his attack was a simple plot device to demonstrate Sylar's power and remove him from the action. It also leaves his presence in season 2 in doubt. There doesn't need to be a reason in world for his actions, it probably just served some purpose to the writers job being easier. I think that diminishes the overall story of the show, though in the Parkman case not a whole lot.



The shield comes on the following day an hour later. This isn't a crime drama or forensic show. We've seen Sylar stop bullets 3 different ways now. two of which would A. keep the bullets with him. B. send the bullets flying in other directions. Because this evidience was never brought up, and it would be important, we can assume there was no hardcore evidence that parkman's bullets missed or hit.
You can assume whatever you want, we can't assume anything.

WAsn't there blood at the first scene?

That's all I need to know that I didn't get a good shot. Parkman's not a marksman, elite supercop, trained swat officier. He is a beat cop.
I don't remember any blood. It's not shown if Parkman's bullets were on scene. You can decide if Parkman was stupid at the initial scene, or at the followup, whichever makes you happy. :)



Nicki's from Las Vegas, where is the hospital. This is New York City. She'd need superspeed aswell.

Ah, so now you're assuming she wasn't heading to a hospital?
Do you think she was going to dump him in a sewer?

The simple fact is, she WAS moving him. She WAS going somewhere with him. She let him rest on a shoulder rather than carry him.
 

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Vocenoctum said:
Basically, I wanted immediate action that made sense. Instead, people stared while others acted.

While part of this was the directing, I think the combat was choreographed very poorly as well. The events should have happened much closer together than they did, and I think whoever was in charge of that scene, both directing and choreographing, should have realized that. Without seeing an actual script, it's hard to blame that scene simply on the writing. For all we know, it could have been written a lot more tightly.

Also, I think in this instance they were trying too hard to emulate a comic book style, where action is told panel by panel, and a big fight might only take a page or two. That works well in comics, but not so well on the screen.
 

Vocenoctum said:
Basically, I wanted immediate action that made sense. Instead, people stared while others acted.
Today, in the paper (Oregonian), I read about a 15 year old girl who chased down a purse snatcher. A motorist stopped and helped in the chase, then the guy ran into a store and store security got him. But everyone else just stood around. People tend to do that. Hey, where'd he come from? Should I do something? What should I do? What can I do?

Bennett broke his arm. Parkman, well...as others have said, he tends to act more from the gut than the head. Jessica's the fighter, not Niki. I think she should have hit Sylar again (and again, and...), but when her son yells for her, and Peter says go, well, she goes. Peter wants very much to be a hero, almost as much as Hiro, but I don't think he'd ever been in so much as a schoolyard brawl. And I think Hiro should have stopped time. But now I kinda suspect Hiro might see that as dishonorable. He announces himself before running Sylar through.

Now, Sylar had previously taunted Hiro, and Hiro disappears, reappears, then disappears again with Ando. So I think Sylar was expecting some Power vs Power match (like we see in the future Sylar/Peter fight), and not just for Hiro to stick him in the chest with a big sword. You might chalk this up to writer's (DM) fiat, but as Hiro says, it's not the sword, it's the man. And it's not Hiro's power that enables him to defeat Sylar.
 

LightPhoenix said:
While part of this was the directing, I think the combat was choreographed very poorly as well. The events should have happened much closer together than they did, and I think whoever was in charge of that scene, both directing and choreographing, should have realized that. Without seeing an actual script, it's hard to blame that scene simply on the writing. For all we know, it could have been written a lot more tightly.
I think the outline just needed more fleshing out, but overall the combat was just a big let down. But, like I said, it's just first season so hopefully they iron out and decide on a course.

Also, I think in this instance they were trying too hard to emulate a comic book style, where action is told panel by panel, and a big fight might only take a page or two. That works well in comics, but not so well on the screen.

That's quite possible, hadn't thought of it. They are still finding their stride though, deciding which recurring characters for next season, trying to find the balance between revealing secrets and keeping mystery.
 

bodhi said:
Today, in the paper (Oregonian), I read about a 15 year old girl who chased down a purse snatcher. A motorist stopped and helped in the chase, then the guy ran into a store and store security got him. But everyone else just stood around. People tend to do that. Hey, where'd he come from? Should I do something? What should I do? What can I do?

I think of it like, what would you do if you were in a 7-11 and a gunfight broke out. WOuld you rush someone? draw your own gun? would you run for cover?

Would you stand there and wait to figure out what to do for the ten minutes?

Bennett broke his arm. Parkman, well...as others have said, he tends to act more from the gut than the head. Jessica's the fighter, not Niki. I think she should have hit Sylar again (and again, and...), but when her son yells for her, and Peter says go, well, she goes. Peter wants very much to be a hero, almost as much as Hiro, but I don't think he'd ever been in so much as a schoolyard brawl. And I think Hiro should have stopped time. But now I kinda suspect Hiro might see that as dishonorable. He announces himself before running Sylar through.
I wonder if Hiro has some kind of locational power too, that he knew where to go. He certainly didn't know When to go...

Now, Sylar had previously taunted Hiro, and Hiro disappears, reappears, then disappears again with Ando. So I think Sylar was expecting some Power vs Power match (like we see in the future Sylar/Peter fight), and not just for Hiro to stick him in the chest with a big sword. You might chalk this up to writer's (DM) fiat, but as Hiro says, it's not the sword, it's the man. And it's not Hiro's power that enables him to defeat Sylar.

At what point did Sylar understand the guy with the sword running at him was a threat?

Assuming Parkman was 100' away, the first bullet reached Sylar in about an eight of a second.

Assuming Hiro was 20' away, how fast would he have to move before Sylar responded to the threat?

Strictly academic though of course. The earlier Jessica/Parkman fight was fine, not to mention the 5 years encounters. Hopefully they figure out how pacing and climax works in season 2. :)
 

DonTadow said:
It has only been a few months. We never saw ONE single training montage with any of them and their powers. There was some training with Peter, but not any of them. YOu're thinking of this as 9 months of training because the show was on for nine months, but, and someone can correct me, isnt the timeline of the show about 3 months (maybe less).

I think it was more like one month. Close to the beginnig of the series Hiro thought it was October 2nd, but he had actually gone ahead to November 8th and seen the explosion. It appears that, because of his changes to history, the explosion happened some hours earlier in the finale.
 

I somehow have 6 weeks in my mind, but I don't know why. Maybe I will have to rewatch the old episodes, when I get them on DVD or something. Oh dear, the hard duties of a fan... :)

By the way, speaking of "turns" and taking turns on a more general level than Heroes: This is something that often happens in movies and series, especially in regards to dialogues. You rarely hear multiple people speak at the same time like it happens in the real world -> the viewer must be able to see and hear all the dialogue, and it's probably also very hard to write a scene that dynamically. (I am neither a writer or actor, but from the scripts I saw from distance, the whole interaction of a scene is described in a single flow. Lines of dialogues, followed by a short description of the action followed by lines of dialogues. Interruptions are possible, but not parallel speaking...)
 

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
By the way, speaking of "turns" and taking turns on a more general level than Heroes: This is something that often happens in movies and series, especially in regards to dialogues. You rarely hear multiple people speak at the same time like it happens in the real world -> the viewer must be able to see and hear all the dialogue, and it's probably also very hard to write a scene that dynamically.
That was one of the cool things about the original movie "The Thing" - people spoke over each other, like in real life. They also used to do that on "Moonlighting" a lot, as I recall (well, at least David and Maddie did).

Johnathan
 

Vocenoctum said:
Assuming Parkman was 100' away, the first bullet reached Sylar in about an eight of a second.

Assuming Hiro was 20' away, how fast would he have to move before Sylar responded to the threat?

Remember Sylar did see Isaac's incomplete comic book, so his reaction might have been to stand still (since by that point he probably believed that you can't change fate).
 

Fascinating discussion all, but somewhat beside the point for me. I don't care if the characters acted bravely, stupidly, according to training, or with animalistic responses. The problem is that it just wasn't a very well-written and even less well-edited episode. For a BIG season-ender that's almost criminal. The pacing of the entire episode just sucked and culminated in a final confrontation that was devoid of real dramatic tension and resolution, or proper flow for any kind of an action scene.

Explain it or nitpick the details as you like. It just wasn't well done, even with what they DID do, and that was a huge disappointment. Yeah they could've/should've done lots of things different there. They just DIDN'T. I was GREATLY more satisfied and pleased with the wrap-up for Lost - and THAT is near insulting considering how annoyed I was with so much of Lost this season.

Oh well. Maybe they'll do better next year.
 

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