Heroes Season [Volume] 1(#23)---5/21/07-'How to stop an Exploding Man' Season Ending.

[Fast Learner]

Parkman was a beat cop who couldn't even pass the detective exam.

Well, ok, but I thought they indicated that was due to dyslexia, not a lack of cop knowledge or experience.

 

[Lhorgrim]

I can't speak to the actions of the other characters, but Parkman behaved in a totally believable manner to me.

As a police officer armed with a handgun he saw Sylar killing Peter. His training and instinct would be to "stop the threat". He tried to do that by firing at Sylar just like he has trained to do on silhouette targets at the range time and time again. . Even if he wasn't sure the bullets would affect Syler, it would go against his training/personality to stand there and do nothing.
Many officers involved in shootings report that they don't actually remember drawing their firearms. The training is so repetitive that drawing and shooting at an identified threat becomes a reflex.

Just my 2 coppers on Parkman's response.

 

[Vocenoctum]

LOL
NO you wouldn't.

Everyone says this, but in that situation, with that kinda supernatural crap going on, you wouldn't know what to do. Now, your d and d character might do something, but real people don't act on initiative order. Reread your statement. This sounds like "what my character would do".

You speak in a factual manner while discussing opinions. The D&D line of reasoning is, once again, yours, not the original posters. Armchair quarterbacking has nothing at ALL to do with D&D, and this show is a story written as entertainment. As such, the writers shouldn't fill it with so many moments where people think they would have acted more efficiently.

There's one of two mindsets, either
A. you know this guy is dangerous, which means you don't want to get too close because you dont know what to do
B. you don't know what this guy is or can do, and you're trying to be careful considering you already have injured loved ones

Neglecting the fact these folks have been through a lot in the season, assuming they are regular folks, we can deal in "Fight or Flight" for a panic situation.

They did neither, they waited their turn.

Parkman didn't know about sylars party and we can only assume he still doesn't know the extent. After all, Parkman and HG was not planning on attacking sylar, so why would they be discussing strategy for stopping him. What's more likely. You shoot someone, and they get up.
a. you think, man he must have some type of telekinetic forcefield that has repelled my shots.
b. I missed.
c. I must not have gotten a good shot or he's wearing something

As I said, if you're going to insert all sorts of unseen scenes, then I would think it logical to allow me the same. Parkman first encountered Bennet during the Sylar investigation. He knew Bennet knew. They had a long drive to NY from Texas, they made small talk. He learned about Sylar then.

He sought out Sylar because Parkman knew the threat of the man. He knew his powers and he knew his tactics. He had means motive and oppurtunity to learn that A was the answer.

Of course if you watch the show, and go into "what would my character do mode" then yeah you choose a because you know about Sylar and his powers and what he could do. but in the show you choose B or c.

Did he check the scene after the initial failed attempt? That'd rule out B.
If he thought C, then he also should have assumed the same likelihood in the repeat encounter and planned for it.

Actually Jessica has, not Nicki and Parkman was a beat cop who couldn't even pass the detective exam. We're not talking about the S.W.A.T. team here, we're talking about traffic violations and putting down yellow tape.

For the record, Nikki was so super strong that she could rip a parking meter out and hit someone with it.

She was not strong enough to simply lift her dying husband and run to a hospital.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I so wanted Nikki to whack Sylar at least one more time with the parking meter! But yeah, she's about the last person to have any real reason to do so. So he's another guy with funky powers? Big deal, so's just about everyone else there... and her husband's been gut shot!

She'd never met Peter before, had she?

Basically, Nikki just went over and attacked a random guy?

Parkman opened fire, but I forget if she had come out at that point.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I can't speak to the actions of the other characters, but Parkman behaved in a totally believable manner to me.
<snip>
Just my 2 coppers on Parkman's response.

I totally agree with you on Parkmans response in the early episode. He came, he saw a threat, bang bang bang, check agent's safety, see boogey man gone.

In this episode though, we have a Parkman that has encountered Sylar, knows about Superpowers, went out to HUNT Sylar and confront him. I'll even assume that Parkman's perception was slow enough that he fired the five rounds before noticing that they were hovering there, but his total lack of preparation leaves a bit to be desired in the Plot Hole department.

 

[papastebu]

I totally agree with you on Parkmans response in the early episode. He came, he saw a threat, bang bang bang, check agent's safety, see boogey man gone.

In this episode though, we have a Parkman that has encountered Sylar, knows about Superpowers, went out to HUNT Sylar and confront him. I'll even assume that Parkman's perception was slow enough that he fired the five rounds before noticing that they were hovering there, but his total lack of preparation leaves a bit to be desired in the Plot Hole department.

Where does Parkman get a vest? He's not a cop anymore, much less a New York cop. I'm fine with his actions, given that he reacts more often than plans, and is not prone to listening to what other people tell him. HRG went down, Parkman reacted.
I am glad to know that Claire is not somehow omniscient, as well as invincible. I wasn't making the connection between their presence in that plaza the previous day and their presence during the battle.
Thinking back on it, it does seem a bit strange that Nicole went and snagged the parking meter from Sylar and then smacked him with it. But only a bit; In my wilder days I tried to stop a fistfight between two men that I saw when I was driving by, and when I got into the middle of them, they started coming after me. I started swinging. That could have been her reaction to the violence of the situation--fight or flight, like you said.
She couldn't move D.L. too much, could she? Not safe.
Maybe the one that can see Molly when she sees him grabbed Sylar's body and is even now reviving him?
I don't know that I would say that the characters were acting by turns, but the action's pacing in the plaza scene was off. Sylar could have stopped Hiro, because he was aware of him from a distance that took about a second to cross, and thought is quicker than that.
I don't think the writers are stupid. They came up with all of this stuff, didn't they? We are looking at a situation in hindsight, and they are trying to consider all possible angles while trying simultaneously to put out a weekly TV show, which, from what I hear, is murderously difficult, even without the complexity of a show like Heroes.

 

[DonTadow]

So then I assume that you thought that Nicki acted out of character since she actually acted "smartly" and attacked Sylar like a "combat character" would? Can't have it both ways.

And Parkman still has training. He has fired his weapon on several occassions and has been in combat situations. For everyone inovlved in the battle (Nikki, Parkman, Bennet, Peter and Hiro) they had all been involved in fighting before and except Nikki had actually fought Sylar before. If they weren't mentally prepared to do so then they should never actively gone to face him. This wasn't them being taken by suprise. They were headed to this location with the intent to confront and kill Sylar.

Nicki acted in reaction, and not all that well. If Jessica had been in control, we'd have seen some more creative attacking of Sylar from here. Beating someone with a club is not the most creative that we've seen jessica.

Parkman has trainning with a gun. So do most hunters. Doesnt mean they are trained for tactical fighting. Nicki and DLwent to the location to find Micah, not fight Sylar. If i am correct, the only people who knew sylar would be there was peter, claire, hiro and maybe Nathan.

 

[DonTadow]

You speak in a factual manner while discussing opinions. The D&D line of reasoning is, once again, yours, not the original posters. Armchair quarterbacking has nothing at ALL to do with D&D, and this show is a story written as entertainment. As such, the writers shouldn't fill it with so many moments where people think they would have acted more efficiently.

I"m basing my opinion on the actual tactical knowledge of the basic human person.

Neglecting the fact these folks have been through a lot in the season, assuming they are regular folks, we can deal in "Fight or Flight" for a panic situation.

This is the basic flaw in this argument. It has only been a few months. We never saw ONE single training montage with any of them and their powers. There was some training with Peter, but not any of them. YOu're thinking of this as 9 months of training because the show was on for nine months, but, and someone can correct me, isnt the timeline of the show about 3 months (maybe less).

They did neither, they waited their turn.

They weren't waiting turns, they were waiting for someone else to do something or waiting for a chance for them to do something. They are not a tactical team. They aren't even a team. I could very well see why it would take someone a minute to digest A. should i help and B. what should I do. YOu see this everyday. Google 91 year old man carjacking Detroit and see what i am talking about. People always say "what i would have done" but in the situation you're a different person without the training of what to do.

As I said, if you're going to insert all sorts of unseen scenes, then I would think it logical to allow me the same. Parkman first encountered Bennet during the Sylar investigation. He knew Bennet knew. They had a long drive to NY from Texas, they made small talk. He learned about Sylar then.

No ones inserting unseen scenes. I"m talking about logic. What is the more likely thought. This is only an hour show. The producers can't put every basic assumption on the screen. If you see HG at the paperfactory during one scene and at home another, its safe to assume he drove there. Do you need that scene to figure it out?

Same here, we obviously see that Parkman doesn't know about Sylars powers. We are safe to assume that Parkman has not figured out that he cant' shoot sylar (considering this is the third time he's done it). Because of the likelihood of a bullet missing at long distances and other intangibles, its more logical for a non-informed about sylar individual to believe there was some other reason, other than telekinesis, why the bullet did not hit sylar. Who is thinking "this guy has telkenetics". Only the tv watcher who knows that. Why would they have a long talk about sylar. What catalyst would have brought in on. The evidence states that parkman does not know much about sylar, so the long talk is illogical. Your logic stream is flawed because of a lack of this catalyst. Why would HG discuss the superpowers of Sylar and everyone else when it has nothing to do with their immiediate mission.

Did he check the scene after the initial failed attempt? That'd rule out B.
If he thought C, then he also should have assumed the same likelihood in the repeat encounter and planned for it.

The shield comes on the following day an hour later. This isn't a crime drama or forensic show. We've seen Sylar stop bullets 3 different ways now. two of which would A. keep the bullets with him. B. send the bullets flying in other directions. Because this evidience was never brought up, and it would be important, we can assume there was no hardcore evidence that parkman's bullets missed or hit.

WAsn't there blood at the first scene?

That's all I need to know that I didn't get a good shot. Parkman's not a marksman, elite supercop, trained swat officier. He is a beat cop.



For the record, Nikki was so super strong that she could rip a parking meter out and hit someone with it.

She was not strong enough to simply lift her dying husband and run to a hospital.[/QUOTE]
Nicki's from Las Vegas, where is the hospital. This is New York City. She'd need superspeed aswell.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

So then you think it was inconsistent for her to even hit Sylar with the meter in the first place? I mean, if her husband is her only thought and Syler is no big deal then why even bother attacking him the first time.

Not sure. I'd have to see that scene again. It seemed to be reasonable at the time, but just why she did it is a bit fuzzy at the moment. Maybe she figured that the guy everyone else was trying to take down was a danger to DL and Micah? So she took him down and went back to worrying about her husband...?

 

[Vocenoctum]

Where does Parkman get a vest? He's not a cop anymore, much less a New York cop.

Vests, up to a certain level are legal. Perhaps not in NY, but hey. ALso, depending on his department, he may have owned his. Either way, he'd have had to procure it during the long trip, which is possible, but unknown.

What I meant was, if he assumed Sylar had a vest, he should have still assumed such now.

I'm fine with his actions, given that he reacts more often than plans, and is not prone to listening to what other people tell him. HRG went down, Parkman reacted.

My problem isn't specifically Parkman shooting, that's more of just an example of the trend. The trend is that none of the characters advanced through the season, they didn't learn. (Except Claire, IMO.)

I am glad to know that Claire is not somehow omniscient, as well as invincible. I wasn't making the connection between their presence in that plaza the previous day and their presence during the battle.
Thinking back on it, it does seem a bit strange that Nicole went and snagged the parking meter from Sylar and then smacked him with it. But only a bit; In my wilder days I tried to stop a fistfight between two men that I saw when I was driving by, and when I got into the middle of them, they started coming after me.

Are you sure you did that? According to DonTadow, people don't act that way.

I started swinging. That could have been her reaction to the violence of the situation--fight or flight, like you said.

It may be that she came out, saw Sylar toss Bennet and Parkman shoot at Sylar, then go down himself. She then reacted to attack the enemy presented. I haven't bothered checking, but I don't think that's it. I think she came down after Parkman was already down.

She couldn't move D.L. too much, could she? Not safe.

She WAS moving DL. Just, slowly. His walking would cause more aggravation than being carried, most of the time.

Maybe the one that can see Molly when she sees him grabbed Sylar's body and is even now reviving him?

Right, The Dark One.

I don't know that I would say that the characters were acting by turns, but the action's pacing in the plaza scene was off. Sylar could have stopped Hiro, because he was aware of him from a distance that took about a second to cross, and thought is quicker than that.

The "turns" phrasing I use is definetly overstated, but that's how the combat felt to me. Like an old FF game where the guy jumps up, uses a big power, the other guy has a little damage number above his head. Then first guy gets back in line, and second guy goes...

ANd yeah, Sylar is fast enough to stop 5 bullets that travel at 850FPS, but not one Japanese Computer Guy.

I don't think the writers are stupid. They came up with all of this stuff, didn't they? We are looking at a situation in hindsight, and they are trying to consider all possible angles while trying simultaneously to put out a weekly TV show, which, from what I hear, is murderously difficult, even without the complexity of a show like Heroes.

I think the writers have a general arc, and specific scene's in mind. The rest they make up as they go along (in advance of shooting, obviously). They don't have a good eye for pacing, since they're still catching their stride, plus they overuse Plot Devices, where they need something to happen (Sylar must escape) without feeling the need to justify it internally.

Hopefully they keep the good stuff and manage to work out the other problems. It is the first season afterall.