D&D 5E Hidding questions

[maritimo80]

Friends, a rule that for me is very much in charge of the master and generates disagreements in several groups that I know, without doubt is HIDING.
How do you apply the rule in your game?
I'm going to ask you some questions just so I can get a better idea and I ask you for help:
1) Do you let them hide in combat? As?
2) If someone is hiding behind a full cover and leaves the corner to attack someone, does he attack directly with advantage (because it's hidden), or can you get a new stealth check?
3) How do you apply the rule for stealth? And in terms of handling? .. Do you let someone sneak behind and try to steal a backpack for ex?
4) Use facing rule (side of vision) to hide?
5) Let someone hiding from hiding using stealth in combat?
Thank you.

 

[jaelis]

1) Do you let them hide in combat? As?

Yes, depending on the circumstances.

2) If someone is hiding behind a full cover and leaves the corner to attack someone, does he attack directly with advantage (because it's hidden), or can you get a new stealth check?

If you have to move fully out from the cover to attack, then I would normally rule that breaks stealth and you don't get advantage. Depending on the situation, I would usually let you lean out around the corner and make a ranged attack with advantage. If you try the same thing over and over though I'll usually say it stops working.

3) How do you apply the rule for stealth? And in terms of handling? .. Do you let someone sneak behind and try to steal a backpack for ex?

I wrote up some rules to help myself judge these things, here they are:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?492003-Stealth-house-rule

4) Use facing rule (side of vision) to hide?

I don't use facing.

5) Let someone hiding from hiding using stealth in combat?

Not quite sure I follow this question!

 

[ThePolarBear]

1) Yes. There's no reason to prevent someone from hiding in combat, assuming the requirements for hiding are met, just because it's combat. There's even a specifc action to be taken to hide (the Hide Action).

2)This depends if we are using a grid or the Theater of the Mind.
On a grid: No. If you are in total cover you have no line of sight to the target and can't hit them. Simply "leaving the corner" means you have to move of a step, leaving you possibly in full view, making you seen if there's nothing distracting the target (i.e. the Help Action specifically mention distracting the target, so it's a good example of something that can be used). Also, the one hiding might move in a way that the total cover becomes a 3/4 cover that, actually, allows attacks to go through. This for me is enough to let the attack be made with advantage. Obviously it's very unrealistic but all grid based combat is. All this is actually a small part of all the considerations i make before actually judge every specific "shot" (i.e. should the target recieve the +5 ac for the 3/4 cover or not? Has the character some ability that would allow him to be still hidden even in full view? ...)
Theater of the Mind: It REALLY depends on the situation. If the attacker is the only one left alive, is hiding behind a very small place, everyone is looking at him... No. Not really because he would not be "unseen", more the rest would expect an attack coming from that direction. No one would get advantage during a shootout from different pieces of cover if all they do is duck, hide, pop out and shoot, for example. If a player comes up with a plan to distract the opponents i might give advantage even to those not hiding. As a rule of thumb i use "if they can't shoot you back, you can't.", but it varies wildly.

3) Again, it depends on the situation. In combat it's usually a no, expecially if the one hiding was visible at some point during the fight or the opponents have reasons to believe someone is hiding. If the opponents are distracted then prehaps. Outside of combat most of the problems come from "how aware are the target and its friends". Killing/stealing from a guard that's looking in your direction is way more difficult than if coming from behind while in the shadows. I'm not afraid to say no, but usually i allow it but try to be as clear as possible about all the difficulties on such action that the character has reason to know about - has heard that the floor is very squeaky when the person walked across, there's a very bright bonfire nearby, there are guard dogs apparently sleeping in cells, but not that far away. Most important thing is being clear about how difficult something would be beforehand (i personally prefer not giving/receiving straight "this is x dc", more about voicing dubts and opinions of the character to the player "CharacterName thinks that something so hard would be stuff of legends to be told in the future", "remember how he used to do this all the time when he was a child", " it would be a coin toss" [...] but this really depends on how much feeling you have with your group and should be something you all agree on).

I follow the rules on the PHB, that allows to be hidden and moving as long as someone takes care to move slowly and if they want to attack someone - starting combat - while hiding you need to not be in the open.

4) I do not use facing rules. I do, mostly while not in combat, take notice of facing if it somehow matters. If you are tailing someone you are going to be behind them most of the time.

5) i have no idea what "hiding from hiding using stealth" means

Hope it helps.

 

[mellored]

IMO...

1: You need full cover/concealment to hide. You need partial cover/concealment to stay hidden. A bush will work if they don't know you are there, but it's not enough to disappear behind if they already see you. This also means you can hide behind a wall and get advantage on your first attack from around a corner (only first attack, not multi-attack). If you walk out into the open, you are immediately seen.

Also, if you run around a corner and hid, they still saw you run around a corner (or attack from it). It doesn't take much Int for a monster to walk around the corner, which would lets them see you.

2: In combat you are assumed to be looking every direction. (actual rule). So you can't sneak up behind someone while fighting. I also apply this to anyone "on guard". Out of combat, they might be distracted by something. DM's call.

3: Stealth checks are opposed by passive perception (10 + Wisdom + perception bonus, if any) (actual rule). And that's after you meet the cover requirement. Roll a 7 when you run around a corner to hide, and you don't get advantage (well, you would against zombies).

4: Once noticed, your location remains known until you take the hide action. (actual rules)
2b: I assume everyone out of combat take a hide action at some point.

5: It's an action to hide. (actual rule) In practice, only rogues hide in combat. Advantage is just not worth skipping your whole turn for.

6: Roll stealth checks when it matters, not before. If you ran behind a wall and hid, you don't know if you will get advantage on your attack until you actually attempt it. Same if you try and sneak up behind someone, you have to make the attempt before you see the result. Possibly have the DM roll it.

7: I add a stealth bonus depending on distance, doors, noisy waterfalls, etc... Even a clunky paladin can hide behind with a roaring waterfall 100' away.


Also, rogues are balanced around getting sneak attack every turn, and often having advantage. It's fine if they spend each turn hiding and shooting with advantage (assuming they rolled well on their stealth check). They will still do less damage than the fighter/barbarian/fireball.

 

[Plaguescarred]

1) Do you let them hide in combat? As? Yes if the hider is not seen clearly or has some feat or features letting it hide otherwise.

2) If someone is hiding behind a full cover and leaves the corner to attack someone, does he attack directly with advantage (because it's hidden), or can you get a new stealth check? It depend if he is seen when popping out or not. In combat since creatures are alert for danger all around them i rule they they are, unless it is distracted somehow. A distracted creature is someone unaware of the hidden creature that is also not specifically watching for danger like a sentinel. IMG it is usually hard to sneak on someone particularly in combat but not nearly as much outside combat.

3) How do you apply the rule for stealth? And in terms of handling? .. Do you let someone sneak behind and try to steal a backpack for ex? Outside combat, distraction would be key. In combat, not likely as creatures are alert for danger all around them and would thus see the creature, unless it can remain hidden while behind it somehow i.e invisible

4) Use facing rule (side of vision) to hide? No i don't use the optional Facing rules in combat.

5) Let someone hiding from hiding using stealth in combat? Yes if the hider is not seen clearly or has some feat or features letting it hide otherwise.

Thank you. You're welcome!

 

[Oofta]

Well, there are no hard and fast rules for hiding, it's largely up to the DM how they want to use it. It's a surprisingly controversial topic so don't be surprised if you get a few hundred responses.

The way I run it, in order to have/maintain stealth you have to be hiding from someone that either cannot directly see you or is simply not paying attention.

Friends, a rule that for me is very much in charge of the master and generates disagreements in several groups that I know, without doubt is HIDING.
How do you apply the rule in your game?
I'm going to ask you some questions just so I can get a better idea and I ask you for help:
1) Do you let them hide in combat? As?

Yes, as long as the person they're hiding from cannot see them or is distracted.

2) If someone is hiding behind a full cover and leaves the corner to attack someone, does he attack directly with advantage (because it's hidden), or can you get a new stealth check?

I don't use facing per se, but if someone is looking in the general direction of the rogue they're going to be seen. If the rogue tries to pop out of the same cover multiple times, it's probably not going to work. If the rogue can move around, get different cover, pop out from different locations then they can get sneak attacks in. It's not always going to be possible, but in the right situation let the rogue have their fun.

3) How do you apply the rule for stealth? And in terms of handling? .. Do you let someone sneak behind and try to steal a backpack for ex?

Sure, if the people are not paying much attention, or paying attention to something else.

4) Use facing rule (side of vision) to hide?

Not facing exactly, but if they bad guy has a barbarian trying to split their head with an axe, they may not be paying attention to what's behind them.

 

[Flamestrike]

Friends, a rule that for me is very much in charge of the master and generates disagreements in several groups that I know, without doubt is HIDING.
How do you apply the rule in your game?
I'm going to ask you some questions just so I can get a better idea and I ask you for help:
1) Do you let them hide in combat? As?
2) If someone is hiding behind a full cover and leaves the corner to attack someone, does he attack directly with advantage (because it's hidden), or can you get a new stealth check?
3) How do you apply the rule for stealth? And in terms of handling? .. Do you let someone sneak behind and try to steal a backpack for ex?
4) Use facing rule (side of vision) to hide?
5) Let someone hiding from hiding using stealth in combat?
Thank you.

Its open to different interpretations. The one I use:

1) Do you let them hide in combat? As?

Yes, as long as they're not being observed going into hiding. If you watch them going into hiding, they cant hide (the steath check fails)

2) If someone is hiding behind a full cover and leaves the corner to attack someone, does he attack directly with advantage (because it's hidden), or can you get a new stealth check?

Your first attack you make from hiding is with advantage. After this attack, you reveal your position regardless of if you hit or miss.

Think of a sniper behind a tree. He gets to snap off a shot from hiding, but once thats done, the game assumes you now know where he is.

3) How do you apply the rule for stealth? And in terms of handling? .. Do you let someone sneak behind and try to steal a backpack for ex?

Yes. If a creature can sneak up behind someone (the critter has its back to him) he can use the hide action (and then move) to sneak up behind that creature.

4) Use facing rule (side of vision) to hide?

There are no facing rules. Just use common sense to determine when a creature is observing someone closely enough to foil a hiding attempt. If you're in a fight to the death with a bunch of Orcs its unlikey youre keeping tabs on their goblin buddy 60' away.

5) Let someone hiding from hiding using stealth in combat?

I dont understand this question.

 

[Shiroiken]

1) Do you let them hide in combat? As?

Hiding in Combat requires an Action, unless you have an ability otherwise (such as Rogues).

2) If someone is hiding behind a full cover and leaves the corner to attack someone, does he attack directly with advantage (because it's hidden), or can you get a new stealth check?

Not sure what you mean. If you leave cover completely, you are no longer hidden unless I have a reason otherwise (such as an enemy specifically looking in the other direction). If you move to the corner (which is half or 3/4 cover, depending on what the corner is), I'll allow an attack from hidden using your previous Stealth result.

3) How do you apply the rule for stealth? And in terms of handling? .. Do you let someone sneak behind and try to steal a backpack for ex?

If you are working against a target looking away (especially outside of combat), then you could try to steal something (also requiring a Slight of Hand check). A backpack might be really tricky though, since most people would immediately notice the change of weight...

4) Use facing rule (side of vision) to hide?

Generally no in combat, since most characters are assumed to be looking around constantly, unless I have a specific reason. Outside of combat, logic reigns, so it doesn't matter.

5) Let someone hiding from hiding using stealth in combat?

Wait... what?

 

[ClearlyTough69]

1) Do you let them hide in combat? As?

Yes, provided they take the Hide action and they are either behind full cover or heavily obscured from the enemy. (As a house rule I also allow them to hide behind three quarters cover in light obscurement.)

2) If someone is hiding behind a full cover and leaves the corner to attack someone, does he attack directly with advantage (because it's hidden), or can you get a new stealth check?

In my game, to get advantage from your attack while hidden, you have to first get a fix on your target. After all, while you've been behind full cover, your target may have moved elsewhere or gone into hiding itself. So you need to peek or peer around the cover. This means you no longer have full cover, but three quarters cover instead and I allow your enemy a chance to see you in this situation (usually with a -5 penalty to their Perception check). If they spot you, you are no longer hidden when you make the attack and so don't benefit from advantage on your attack roll. You can peek around cover in this way without using any movement (ie while staying in the same five foot square/ space).

If the enemy saw you go into hiding behind that corner and is expecting to see you there, they get a +5 bonus to their Perception check.

If you actually move into a space that has no cover from your enemy and you are not obscured from them, then they can see you clearly, you are no longer hidden, and you lose advantage from your attack roll.

3) How do you apply the rule for stealth? And in terms of handling? .. Do you let someone sneak behind and try to steal a backpack for ex?

When you want to hide or be stealthy, you declare it. From that point on you are hiding. When the time comes to contest your Stealth check with an enemy's Perception check, that is when you actually roll your check, and not a moment sooner! Your check result applies until you come out of hiding or you are spotted by a creature that you're hiding from.

If you are sneaking past a creature that is also sneaking or somehow imperceptible to you, then I will roll behind the screen to see who notices who. You and the other creature might sneak right past each other and never know that the other one was there!

I do let characters and other creatures sneak up on each other, but it's usually pretty hard. All the requirements for hiding still need to be met. In combat a creature is usually aware of all other combatants and their positions, but I might rule that it can be distracted, eg by the Help action, or if two or more of its enemies are adjacent to one another and to it ('up in its face' in modern parlance).

Out of combat, a distracted creature that is not moving takes disadvantage to its Perception checks. If it's moving, it cannot be distracted on Perception checks to notice a creature in front of it, but it can be in its flanks and rear.

If you attempt to sneak up on a creature out of combat, you must roll a new Stealth check every time you halve the distance between yourself and the creature since your last Stealth check (eg if I am 90 feet from you and I'm sneaking up towards you, I must make a new Stealth check when I get to 45 feet from you, then again at 20, 10 and 5 feet).

If you attempt to sneak up on a creature in combat, you must roll a new Stealth check any time you halve the distance between yourself and the creature since the beginning of your turn (eg if I am 90 feet from you and I'm sneaking up towards you at 20 feet per turn, I don't need to make a new Stealth check until I start my turn 30 feet from you; before I step into the space 15 feet from you, I make a new Stealth check.

4) Use facing rule (side of vision) to hide?

I don't use it in combat, though in certain circumstances a creature can be distracted in its rear and flanks, as described above.

5) Let someone hiding from hiding using stealth in combat?

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Hiding in combat at my table:

A PC (or monster) must first move behind a solid object or Heavily Obscuring terrain. The three exceptions to this rule are:
- Lightfoot Halflings (who can also be behind a larger-sized creature due to Naturally Stealthy)
- Wood Elves (who only need to be behind Lightly Obscuring terrain if it's natural phenomena due to Mark of the Wild)
- Those with the Skulker feat (who can attempt to hide in the Lightly Obscuring terrain of Dim Light.)

Once behind said object or terrain they are considered "out of sight", and they then roll a DEX (Stealth) check to see how well they are hidden. This check is covering all of ways you could sense the creature besides sight (so how quiet they can remain, covering their scent, avoiding leaving footprints or knocking into objects, not affecting air currents etc.) If this number is higher than an enemy's Passive Perception, the PC is considered Hidden to that specific individual.

Anyone who wishes to find the Hidden person (because the DEX (Stealth) check was higher than their Passive Perception), the individual must either:
1) Move to another location in space such that the hidden individual is no longer behind or being blocked by the cover or terrain that allowed them to make the check in the first place (so for instance, moving around the wall or corner to come face-to-face with the person who ducked behind it to hide.)
2) Use their Action to make an active INT (Perception) check to find the person. If their INT (Perception) roll is higher than the PC's DEX (Stealth) check, then they know where the PC is. Yes, I use INT for active Perception checks, and only use WIS for the passive number. I also give several of my monsters and NPCs an extra feature called 'Vigilant', which allows them to use a Bonus action to make INT (Perception) checks to find Hidden creatures.

If the person who is hiding wishes to attack an enemy during combat on their turn, several things must occur:
1) The target of the attack must be unaware of the hiding person-- usually because their Passive Perception was lower than the DEX (Stealth) check, or if their active INT (Perception) check (if they made one) was also lower than the DEX (Stealth) check.
2) The person who went into hiding must move at least 10 feet away from where they first entered the obscuring terrain and must remain behind obscuring terrain for the duration of the move. This movement can be from Heavily Obscuring terrain to Lightly Obscuring, but at the end of the move they do still need to be behind some form of obscuring terrain (Light, Heavy, or LOS blocking). The original DEX (Stealth) check counts for this movement. (This is to keep a PC from trying to hide and attack just behind a single pillar for example. The monsters need to have a wider possible area from whence an attack could come from for them to be more susceptible to attack.)
3) The individual can then fire from within or lean out from behind said obscuring terrain to attack, and they will get to make the attack with Advantage using their Action. After this attack they are no longer considered Hidden. Unless stated by the PC otherwise, it is assumed they duck back behind the terrain they are in, resulting in either a bonus to AC (due to Lightly or Heavily Obscuring terrain), or being unable to be targeted due to no line-of-sight. If the PC still has an action available this turn to make another DEX (Stealth) check to become Hidden again, they may. Otherwise, on the PC's next turn they usually will start by making a new DEX (Stealth) check to regain their Hidden status and then move 10 feet to a new location behind the cover in order to attack with Advantage again with their next available Action.

Most of the time, attacking while Hidden is usually done by those PCs and monsters who can make Hide checks using Bonus actions. They move into Heavily Obscuring terrain or behind cover, use a Bonus action to make a DEX (Stealth) check, move an additional 10 feet while in the terrain if they have it available, then attack an enemy while Hidden using their Action. The rest of the round they are not considered Hidden, but do gain any AC bonuses due to the terrain. The next round they will then do the same thing over again.

The way for monsters to defend against this tactic is to either use their movement to get into or behind the cover the PC is within so as to break the Hidden status... or Ready their Action to fire on the PC when they pop out to attack.