Hide in Plain Sight and Sniping?

[Shadowdweller]

As other people keep mentioning, I think the difference between sniping and shoot/Hide in Plain Sightis as follows: If one uses the -20 sniping rule, the sniper IS NOT SEEN AT ALL after shooting. If one shoots and AFTERWARDS uses Hide in Plain Sight, the victim detects the archer for a few moments before that person hides again.

Why does this makes any difference at all? Because A) the victim gets to see what the archer looks like, and B) now has a much better idea where to search for said archer.

I don't think it's written anywhere, but as DM I apply a -20 penalty ANY time anyone tries to shoot and hide in the same round.

Edit: Amended due to inaccuracy

 

[mikebr99]

mikebr99 and I disagree on this issue and will probably never agree - use whatever fits your campaign best - both interpretations are supported by the RAW.

Hey Abraxas...
Add this thread to your list eh? This has always been a great topic...

Just one thing... The RAW say: "-20 to hide while attacking," which, you are right, does not mention whether they mean a full attack or just std. attack.

But, and you knew there'd be one...

The Sniping mechanic, specifically limits you to one ranged attack per round.

How can you justify allowing melee attackers the option of full attacking while remaining hidden, but not ranged attackers... within RAW?


Mike

 

[RigaMortus]

How can you justify allowing melee attackers the option of full attacking while remaining hidden, but not ranged attackers... within RAW?


Mike

If I may... Simply because there are no "melee" sniping rules. There are specific rules layed out for what a Ranged sniper can and can't do, but there isn't for someone who wishes to do the same in melee. If no rule is present to go against it, by default you are allowed to do it.

 

[mikebr99]

If I may... Simply because there are no "melee" sniping rules. There are specific rules layed out for what a Ranged sniper can and can't do, but there isn't for someone who wishes to do the same in melee. If no rule is present to go against it, by default you are allowed to do it.

No... by default (unless you can site something to the contrary...), unless it specifically says you can do something, then you can't do it.

 

[RigaMortus]

No... by default (unless you can site something to the contrary...), unless it specifically says you can do something, then you can't do it.

Sorry, I was given some mis-information up there. Someone said you could do a full attack while remaning hidden, which you can't. After reading Hide myself, I just noticed this.

Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.

Since you can't do a movement when doing a full attack, you can't Hide either. And before anyone brings it up, the "Usually none." comment refers to when you are out of combat. Outside of combat, it doesn't take an action to Hide (or Move Silently). Inside of combat, that is when it is part of your move.

 

[Lamoni]

No... by default (unless you can site something to the contrary...), unless it specifically says you can do something, then you can't do it.

Either view doesn't work all the time...
There is no rule saying that I can sleep on a bunk bed. Therefore, I guess I can't sleep on a bunk bed in the game.

There is no rule saying that I can't cleave on a bunch of puppies running away, or any other rule exploitation. Therefore, I guess I can do that.

I know that neither of those were great examples. The first one was something that would obviously not be placed in the rules. The second one is technically correct, but still probably shouldn't be allowed by the DM.

 

[mikebr99]

Either view doesn't work all the time...
There is no rule saying that I can sleep on a bunk bed. Therefore, I guess I can't sleep on a bunk bed in the game.

There is no rule saying that I can't cleave on a bunch of puppies running away, or any other rule exploitation. Therefore, I guess I can do that.

I know that neither of those were great examples. The first one was something that would obviously not be placed in the rules. The second one is technically correct, but still probably shouldn't be allowed by the DM.

What is your point exactly?

There is nothing in the RAW about where or wherenot a character can sleep... just some rules about what creatures need sleep. So it is up to the local DM to make those rules up him or herself.

And it is legal move to cleave off of escaping puppies... but I'd like to see you try it at my table.

Mike

 

[RigaMortus]

What is your point exactly?
And it is legal move to cleave off of escaping puppies... but I'd like to see you try it at my table.

Mike

What's wrong with your table? Is it missing a leg or something?

 

[mikebr99]

What's wrong with your table? Is it missing a leg or something?

Yeah! Certain people's minis keep falling into the Guacamole pit of despair!


Mike

 

[RigaMortus]

There is no rule saying that I can sleep on a bunk bed. Therefore, I guess I can't sleep on a bunk bed in the game.

There is no rule saying you CAN'T sleep on a bunk bed either. So therefore, I guess you can.

Sorry, you're losing me here...