Hide in Plain Sight?

[Werebat]

Is Hide in Plain Sight a move action to activate? I saw a post here claiming that it was, with backing from the sage, but I'm not sure if it was from 3.0 or not.

Also, will Darkvision enable someone to see someone who is using the HiPS ability to Hide without any cover or concealment? I can't find an official ruling one way or the other.

I guess that's it. Any answers?

- Ron ^*^

 

[frankthedm]

Well, from the way the text is worded, it can be argued that using supernatural versions and possibly extraordinary versions of HiPS are a standard action. SO basically it comes down to how much the DM wants to give the shadowdancer and ranger. The DM can let it work just like normal hide or pin back its ears if it runs rampant.

Not sure what the FAQ, Errata or Rules compendium say on the matter.

Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise.

Using an extraordinary ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion. Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are standard actions unless otherwise noted.

 

[Arkhandus]

It's not something you activate, it's a constant effect. But the Hide skill is used as part of movement, to move into a hiding position. That's why you use a move action (or double move) to use the Hide skill. It's not the HiPS ability itself that requires activation, it's just that you have to move somewhere to start hiding; you can't just stand stock-still and suddenly disappear.

 

[Pinotage]

HiPs follows the same rules for hide, with the exceptions for the ability of course, where you can hide while being viewed by somebody else. I've always required a shadowdancers to use it as part of hiding, hence as part of a move or a move action.

I don't think darkvision penetrates HiPs, but there have been debates about this in the past. I've DM'd for 2 high level shadowdancers in the past few years, and it's been fairly straightforward as long as you lay down the ground rules before hand.

Pinotage

 

[Thanee]

Note: Hide in Plain Sight is not only the Shadowdancer ability you refer to; the Ranger also has an ability with the same name, that has nothing to do with shadows.

Is Hide in Plain Sight a move action to activate? I saw a post here claiming that it was, with backing from the sage, but I'm not sure if it was from 3.0 or not.

There was a FAQ entry which stated, that it is at least a move action, since you are required to make a move in order to use the Hide skill. It's not an action by itself, though.

Also, will Darkvision enable someone to see someone who is using the HiPS ability to Hide without any cover or concealment? I can't find an official ruling one way or the other.

Fluffwise it probably should, but it would likely weaken the ability too much.

True Seeing definitely should negate it though, IMHO (another of those hotly debated topics ).

Bye
Thanee

 

[mvincent]

Is Hide in Plain Sight a move action to activate?

The HIPS ability merely allows you to use the Hide skill in areas that you normally could not, so it simply has the same action requirements as Hide:
"Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action."

I saw a post here claiming that it was, with backing from the sage, but I'm not sure if it was from 3.0 or not.

It's from the 3.5 FAQ:
"A character with the hide in plain sight class feature
(described on page 48 in the Player’s Handbook) can make a
Hide check even if she’s being observed. This doesn’t require
any extra action to accomplish (unlike the sniping maneuver).
The character could attack a foe, then move to a place with
sufficient cover or concealment to allow a Hide check, making
the Hide check as part of movement."

will Darkvision enable someone to see someone who is using the HiPS ability to Hide without any cover or concealment?

The rules say:
"A creature can’t hide within 60 feet of a character with darkvision unless it is invisible or has cover."
... but this passage is only supposed to apply to being able to hide from lack of illumination, and should not be taken too strictly (i.e. a strict literal reading here would also imply that a dwarf cannot hide within 60’ of himself). Darkvision should not help you against a Ranger's HIP ability. Against a Shadowdancer might be another story.

 

[mvincent]

Not sure what the FAQ, Errata or Rules compendium say on the matter.

Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise.

From the 3.0 FAQ (if desired):
"The shadowdancer’s hide in plain sight ability is a
supernatural ability, so by definition it takes a standard
action to hide in plain sight, right? The monk’s speed
becomes a supernatural ability at 9th level. Does a monk
have to spend a standard action to move greater than 50
feet in one action?
Though supernatural abilities usually require a standard
action to use, a few of them do not. Hide in plain sight, for
example, works just like any other use of the Hide skill, so you
use it as a move action or as part of a move action.
A monk’s supernatural speed works anytime the monk
moves. In general, whenever a supernatural ability changes the
way one of the user’s actions works, it works just like the
action it modifies."

 

[Werebat]

The rules say:
"A creature can’t hide within 60 feet of a character with darkvision unless it is invisible or has cover."
... but this passage is only supposed to apply to being able to hide from lack of illumination, and should not be taken too strictly (i.e. a strict literal reading here would also imply that a dwarf cannot hide within 60’ of himself).

Right, that rule is poorly worded. Strict RAW allow you to hide 70' away from a drow with 120' darkvision, for some reason. Even more goofy, you cannot hide 50' away from a character with 30' darkvision. Go figure.

A better wording might have been "a creature with darkvision automatically succeeds on its Spot check to detect a creature hiding within the range of its darkvision unless that creature is invisible, using cover to hide behind, or both."

Given such a sensible house rule, should darkvision automatically see through a shadowdancer's HiPS ability? I think so. Moreover I can't think of an argument that it wouldn't see through HiPS that wouldn't also bar blindsight and tremorsense from seeing through it, too.

What I want to avoid is a scenario I saw in another campaign where one guy played a rogue/shadowdancer and every round was the same song -- "I get a full round of sneak attacks, then hide in plain sight (as a free action)!" I'm sure this player was milking the ability for more than it was worth.

From what I have learned, it seems more like: "I'm hiding in plain sight at the start of the round, and next to the enemy. I get one sneak attack as a standard action, then use my move action to hide in plain sight, with a -20 penalty to my hide check because I attacked this round. Good thing I'm fighting something without scent, blindsight, or darkvision!"

Considerably less "ROXXORZ PWNZORZ" than the former example. Still useful, though.

- Ron ^*^

 

[Mistwell]

It's not something you activate, it's a constant effect. But the Hide skill is used as part of movement, to move into a hiding position. That's why you use a move action (or double move) to use the Hide skill. It's not the HiPS ability itself that requires activation, it's just that you have to move somewhere to start hiding; you can't just stand stock-still and suddenly disappear.

Hiding does not require movement. It's USUALLY combined with movement, but it doesn't require movement (and Rules Compendium clarifies this, stating that all you need is cover or concealment). You can hide in place as a move action, or you can combine it with another move action. Sort of like the ability to draw a weapon as a move action, or you can combine drawing a weapon with another move action (if you have a +1 BAB). FAQ agrees btw, stating "Hide in plain sight, for example, works just like any other use of the Hide skill, so you use it as a move action or as part of a move action."

 

[Mistwell]

Given such a sensible house rule, should darkvision automatically see through a shadowdancer's HiPS ability?

I disagree. Both the Ranger and the Shadowdancer use the same important language "can use the Hide skill even while being observed." You can observe someone in the dark using darkvision, but they can still hide from you even while being observed with your darkvision. Much like someone with normal vision can observer you in light, but you can hide from them even in light using this ability.