Hideous Blow= AoO?

[Theroc]

Does Hideous Blow provoke attacks of Opportunity?

I would think no, since the point of the invocation is to allow melee combat, but the reading doesn't directly state whether or not it does not, though spell-like abilities usually do.

Hideous Blow-
Hideous Blow(CArc p134)
<Invocation(blast shape)>
– As a Standard Action, make one melee attack.
If the hit is successful (even if it does not
damage), then treat the opponent as if he/she
were also hit with the invoker’s Eldritch Blast
(including any special effects due to Eldritch
Essence invocations).
Effective Spell Level: 1st.

 

[Rhun]

Well, it looks like consensus of your fellow DMs is that is shouldn't provoke an AoO. But I'd still like to hear about what the rest of EN World has to say about our ruling?

 

[irdeggman]

There are 2 parts to Hideous Blow.

invoking and attacking.

Invoking a spell like ability always generates an AoO unless the SLA states otherwise (assuming nothing like casting defensively that is). Nothing in the description of Hideous Blow states otherwise.

The attack does not however.

So only 1 AoO should be generated from the entire activity.

 

[starwed]

This is one of those cases where we actually know the RAI.

One of the designers of the Warlock class has stated that Hideous Blow should not provoke AoO.

However, I think that at some later point there was a Sage Advice that reiterated the RAW answer that it does provoke?

 

[irdeggman]

From the FAQ

Does a warlock’s hideous blow invocation (CAr, page 134) require one standard action to use the hideous blow and another round to strike with a melee weapon, or can the hideous blow and the melee weapon attack be done as a single standard action?

Making an attack with hideous blow is considered part of the same standard action as using the hideous blow invocation (much like the casting of a touch spell allows an attack to be made as part of the spell’s casting).

Does hideous blow provoke an attack of opportunity?

Yes. As a spell-like ability, using hideous blow provokes attacks of opportunity just as any other spell-like ability would. A warlock who relies on this invocation should consider investing ranks in the Concentration skill so that he can use it defensively.

Note that the act of using the invocation, not the act of making the attack, draws the attack of opportunity, since the warlock delivering hideous blow is considered “armed” (just like a spellcaster delivering a touch spell).

Which is pretty much what I said earlier. Think in terms of casting and delivering a touch attack spell - the logic is almost identical here.

Interesting that Rich said that Andy would clarify the hideouls blow situation in a Sage Advice article, which is what is quoted above. So I would not say that the RAI meant that hideous blow did not provoke an AoO (only the attack being made with it), it appears that the RAI and RAW in this case actually match when looking at the full rules intent. I mean think about it why should a SLA that in essence duplicates the effect (albeit with more power and options) than a touch attack spell not follow the same set of rules?

 

[pawsplay]

Hideous Blow is just plain hideous.

* It provokes an AoO in melee.
* No interative attacks.
* Turns a fairly safe touch attack to a regular attack, for which you gain the base damage of your melee weapon as a bonus.
* Can only be used properly with one-handed weapons (otherwise you are repeatedly taking your hand off the weapon to use the invocation, then wielding it in two hands again before you attack, which means you are briefly unarmed).

 

[Theroc]

Well, after asking this, I ended up finding a thread where this was discussed very thoroughly, though it still seemed somewhat up in the air to me. Warlock Faq by Rich Baker - Wizards Community

At one point, a poster said something that I'd somewhat noticed myself.

Unlike a Touch Attack Spell, Hideous Blow's effect comes AFTER a blow is already struck. I suppose according to RAW this distinction is irrelevant, but it seems somewhat non-sensical to treat this invocation as a touch attack when it doesn't follow the same rules as a touch attack.

1. It is used with a weapon
2. The effect cannot be held like a touch attack, and any 'invocation' occurs after the blow hits, and is almost more like a spellstoring weapon effect than a touch attack.

Again, I'm assuming RAW, my confusion isn't relevant though.

Just something to consider I suppose. I do know I'll discuss this with any DM I deal with before constructing a Melee Warlock build.

 

[irdeggman]

Well, after asking this, I ended up finding a thread where this was discussed very thoroughly, though it still seemed somewhat up in the air to me. Warlock Faq by Rich Baker - Wizards Community

At one point, a poster said something that I'd somewhat noticed myself.

Unlike a Touch Attack Spell, Hideous Blow's effect comes AFTER a blow is already struck. I suppose according to RAW this distinction is irrelevant, but it seems somewhat non-sensical to treat this invocation as a touch attack when it doesn't follow the same rules as a touch attack.

1. It is used with a weapon
2. The effect cannot be held like a touch attack, and any 'invocation' occurs after the blow hits, and is almost more like a spellstoring weapon effect than a touch attack.

Again, I'm assuming RAW, my confusion isn't relevant though.

Just something to consider I suppose. I do know I'll discuss this with any DM I deal with before constructing a Melee Warlock build.

IIRC there was something somewhere (I just can't remember where so maybe someone can help with it) - about combining a touch spell with an unarmed attack for combined damage (I think there was a dragon article about a staff familiar that did the same thing too). Basically what you ended up doing was trading the touch attack for a combined attack with the weapon that delivered both sets of damage at once. If the melee attack missed then so did the touch attack. So it was a similar concept.

Basically melee warlock builds are really not very efficient - the class is designed for a ranged attacker (albeit short range).

The better invocation for melee oriented warlocks is eldritch glaive.

 

[Theroc]

IIRC there was something somewhere (I just can't remember where so maybe someone can help with it) - about combining a touch spell with an unarmed attack for combined damage (I think there was a dragon article about a staff familiar that did the same thing too). Basically what you ended up doing was trading the touch attack for a combined attack with the weapon that delivered both sets of damage at once. If the melee attack missed then so did the touch attack. So it was a similar concept.

Basically melee warlock builds are really not very efficient - the class is designed for a ranged attacker (albeit short range).

The better invocation for melee oriented warlocks is eldritch glaive.

I don't have access to Eldritch Glaive, is that in Complete Mage or Dragon Magic?

As far as combining the two, I know Living Enworld has a homebrew/OGL feat that allows a character to channel "Inflict" spells into an unarmed blow.

I don't know of anything else offhand.

 

[irdeggman]

I don't have access to Eldritch Glaive, is that in Complete Mage or Dragon Magic?

Dragon Magic, IIRC.

Basically it creates a reach weapon that lasts until your next turn so you can make AoO, unlike Hideous Blow.