hiding and sneak attacks

[BIGLOU]

Guys here is a situation that I am not sure how to rule. Character with high hide skill, hide in plain sign, and always sneaky.

If he beats an opponent in a Hide/Spot dual does he get sneak attack damage ala the invisible rules?

Let me know if I am missing something, but I think he does. The thing he is fighting is not able to see him.

BIGLOU

 

[Crothian]

Yes, he does

 

[Magus_Jerel]

The thing he is fighting is not able to see him.

It doesn't matter how you get this - if the shadowdancer in question can see the target clearly (target does not get concealment) and the target can't see him - apply sneak attack dice.

 

[BIGLOU]

OK that is what I was thinking, Thanks for confirming.

As a follow-up question, If the character could take more than one attack in a full round action would he get the sneak for all the attacks or the first attack?

 

[Magus_Jerel]

All of them.

 

[graydoom]

Yep, he can take all his attacks. A rogue that gets the complete drop on an opponent can be really deadly.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Actually, I would say only the first attack is a sneak attack.

Hiding is not like Improved Invisibility, in that you can attack and remain unseen. Once an attack is made, the PC is no longer hidden, and therefore his remaining attacks would not be considered sneak attacks.

This is similar to the Invisibility spell. The spell is not broken after a PC makes his first full attack action, but rather, his first attack. Hiding works the same way.

A shadowdancer can of course hide again, but that requires a standard action, I believe. So a Spring Attacking shadowdancer could jump in, sneak attack, and then jump away. Hide. Then rinse-and-repeat. But he wouldn't be "infinitely hidden" unless he got himself a spellcaster to hit him with Improved Invisibility.

I'm not sure how Always Sneaky works in here, though. The text says the PC is always considered to be taking 10 on hide and move silently checks, but I'm not sure this means that once spotted they can re-hide as a free action, or simply whether in any given circumstances, they are always considered to be taking 10 until spotted.

My two cents.

 

[Grumbar Dorunn]

I think Lord Pendragon is right, since the rule for hding at range is the following in the song and silence book:

"if you'va already hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again as a move action. You suffer a -20 circumstance penalty on your hide check to conceal yourself after shot"

Since you've shot him, he knows you're there, so it becomes more difficult to hide.

Hiding back when in melee is then almost impossible since you have nothing to get concealed. Even if you can hide in plain sight: to do so, it would require that you bluff the target and hide, and that would have to be considered as an action (you'd loose all the remaining attacks)

Well, that's my opinion....

 

[CRGreathouse]

Hiding back when in melee is then almost impossible since you have nothing to get concealed. Even if you can hide in plain sight: to do so, it would require that you bluff the target and hide, and that would have to be considered as an action (you'd loose all the remaining attacks)

Hiding in plain sight means that you don't need to distract your foe to make the check (among other things). I agree that the sniping circumstance penalty should apply for the possibility of iterative attacks.

 

[BIGLOU]

Thanks for the help so far. I would like to reach some sort of consensus and have a few more questions.

We agree that:

A rouge get his sneak attack when he is hidden.

What is still in question:
Are all of the rouges attacks sneak attacks?
If only the first attack would normally be considered a sneak, does always sneaky with hide in plain sight allow your to get the others as sneak.


Other related questions
Why does a rouge get a sneak attack when he is hidden? Is it because the opponent loses his Dex bonus? If it is because of Dex then is someone with Uncanny Dodge immune to this?