D&D 5E (2014) Hit Point Recovery Too Generous

[Cristian Andreu]

There's a lot of great ideas in this thread! I like the ideas about making short rests last 8 hours and long rests a whole week (but only for healing, not for powers and spells) and rolling for wounds when reduced to 0 HP. I also found the suggestion of imposing 1 level of exhaustion when below 1/4 HPs to be pretty interesting. Will steal.

In my case, the reason for finding the rules too generous is not necessarily due to realism, but rather due to pacing and tension; I like encounters to be a bit more risky and for continuous adventuring without proper rest to be a challenge. That said, I do tend to use much fewer encounters per session than what's usually reccomended (to be honest, I don't have a set schedule; they happen when they need to happen due to the story or, more usually, because the PCs started a mess. The latter seems to be 90% of the cases these days).

 

[Tony Vargas]

There's a lot of great ideas in this thread! I like the ideas about making short rests last 8 hours and long rests a whole week (but only for healing, not for powers and spells) ...
In my case, the reason for finding the rules too generous is not necessarily due to realism, but rather due to pacing and tension; I like encounters to be a bit more risky and for continuous adventuring without proper rest to be a challenge.

Putting healing and spells on different time tables doesn't accomplish that: the game will just go at the pacing dictated by spells, natural healing becomes irrelevant. Spells are the more powerful/important resources to recharge, in part because they can also be used for healing, if they're also the faster/easier resource to recharge, they become the only resource it's important to manage.

Tension can be heightened with (slightly - very slightly, you want to be careful about it) deadlier encounters.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So, having given the FATE version of things, one can imagine a D&D-ized version of those Consequences.

One simple, off the cuff idea for an application might be: instead of taking some number of hit points of damage, the player can choose to take a Wound. The Wound is in some way more difficult to heal than normal hit points, and has some mechanical impact while it exists. Maybe it requires something equivalent to a Regenerate spell to clear.

Useful near the end of a big fight, and the character is running low on hit points, he can stay standing if he so chooses.

To be clear, the idea is you choose to take a wound /instead/ of taking the hps, or, perhaps, instead of being KOd by the hp damage? So maybe something like: you can't dodge the heavy blow of your enemy's mace, but you throw up your arm at the last instant and suffer a broken wrist instead of a concussion - you're hurt, can't use that hand for a while, but are still in the fight? That kind of thing?

As long as the player is the one making the decision, about whether or not his/her character becomes wounded, then that's not a D&D-ized version of anything.

Well, if we let you have your OneTrueWay and act as final arbiter of what is and is not D&D, then, OK, it's not D&D-izing a good idea from FATE. We can label it FATE-izing D&D a little, and move on, yes?

principle aspect of D&D is that players state their intended actions, and the DM determines the results of those actions. It is beyond the role of the player to ever determine whether a hit received manifests as HP loss or some long-lasting wound.

That's guidance 5e gives the player when resolving /actions/, yes. 5e also directs the DM to use it only as a starting point, and to make whatever rulings, modifications or additions to the game he likes. And, it's not like Mike Mearls didn't throw in an indie-ish mechanic with similar qualities - inspiration - to 'encourage RP.' Inspiration, while doled out to the player by the DM like a mackerel to a trained dolphin, is still a player-arbitrated decision when it comes to actually using it (it doesn't apply to the next roll or the next roll the DM deems is related to the inspiration, but to a roll of the player's choice).

 

[mlund]

Inspiration, while doled out to the player by the DM like a mackerel to a trained dolphin, is still a player-arbitrated decision when it comes to actually using it (it doesn't apply to the next roll or the next roll the DM deems is related to the inspiration, but to a roll of the player's choice).

To be fair, that's true for most Reaction abilities that trigger after a roll too - like Shield. The DM says you got hit and the Player (not the character) looks at his sheet and decides whether or not to tell the DM, "Nope." Same thing with Lucky and I think the "Defensive Duelist" feat as well. It's more apparently a player-based decision when you account for the player knowing that THIS 11 damage (or 2d6 +4 if you are rolling) isn't of consequence since his PC is at 30 HP, but THAT 11 damage later is consequential since his PC is now at 3 HP (but, in-game, exactly as functional as the PC was at 30 HP).

Marty Lund

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Well, if we let you have your OneTrueWay and act as final arbiter of what is and is not D&D, then, OK, it's not D&D-izing a good idea from FATE. We can label it FATE-izing D&D a little, and move on, yes?

That works for me. Labels are really important, and that would be a much more-accurate way of phrasing it.

 

[pemerton]

that's true for most Reaction abilities that trigger after a roll too - like Shield. The DM says you got hit and the Player (not the character) looks at his sheet and decides whether or not to tell the DM, "Nope." Same thing with Lucky and I think the "Defensive Duelist" feat as well. It's more apparently a player-based decision when you account for the player knowing that THIS 11 damage (or 2d6 +4 if you are rolling) isn't of consequence since his PC is at 30 HP, but THAT 11 damage later is consequential since his PC is now at 3 HP (but, in-game, exactly as functional as the PC was at 30 HP).

Absolutely!

The only RPGs I personally can think of that approximate to every player decision mapping onto an analogous character decision, and player decisions consist of nothing but action declarations for the PC which the GM then adjudicates, are classic Traveller and Runequest. (And even Traveller has an exception in its Streetwise skill.)

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

TL;DR so maybe already covered, but hp equate to dodging, weaving, skill, determination, and actual trauma and blood loss. In this case, healing to full hp after a rest isn't some kind of miracle, it's rest. Allowing you energy to continue dodging, blocking, fending off etc. Everyone has essentially, say, 5 hp of actual medical hp- the rest is comprised of experience and talent. The killing blow is the one that penetrates properly. Everything else, as d &d is not a crunchy system, is cuts and bruises. So, for me, healing full hit points isn't that bad of a deal, conceptually.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I'm trying to imagine a situation where a player or character would choose to not recover, given the option. Maybe if the character has lost the will to live?

Real situation: if there's a banshee or demilich in the next room over, and you're getting ready to make another try. HP won't help you there, since failed saves just drop you straight to zero; you just need a couple of HP and then save the rest for afterward.

/tangent

 

[Umbran]

To be clear, the idea is you choose to take a wound /instead/ of taking the hps, or, perhaps, instead of being KOd by the hp damage? So maybe something like: you can't dodge the heavy blow of your enemy's mace, but you throw up your arm at the last instant and suffer a broken wrist instead of a concussion - you're hurt, can't use that hand for a while, but are still in the fight? That kind of thing?

Yes. With the understanding that the wound has some mechanical impact, where the hit point loss (if it doesn't kill you) doesn't have any impact. It should be a trade off.

Balancing this would be really difficult, though.

 

[Celtavian]

Well done. You have just perfectly described one premise routinely used by advocates for the Encounter power and Martial Daily power paradigms in 4e. While I agree with your first sentence here, detractors of 4e didn't dig the reasoning so much (of which I think you belong?).

Because they weren't used in that fashion and didn't in any way fit the premise in description or narrative use in 4E.