Holiday Present - The Elf PHB entry

[DandD]

Bah, these magical D&D-worlds are far more advanced than we ever could be. They can tap upon powers to travel to alternate realities, change time, tele-transport, have far superior medical techniques with which they can even bring back dead people, can grow food instantly, and destroy worlds in an instant, cause tidal waves, and create viable offsprings with alien creatures. Their only problem, like upon our world, is the distribution of power and ressources.
But everytime some mage-goons stick together to do something good, they create uber-magical empires that can do things that defy anything we ever accomplished, like floating cities, never-ending food and drinks, magical automaton slaves and such.

 

[HeinorNY]

As mentioned in my post above, they don't need to be 70 years old to be an adventurer. They could easily be one by 30. They'd just sort of be looked at by their family as the red-headed stepchild...the one who moved out at 17...that kind of thing.

And at 30, they wouldn't be any less competent than many humans are at that age...still lvl 1.

I find it humourous to discuss suspension of disbelief with respect to elves living a long time, when they're in the middle of putting demonically or devilishly blooded human crossbreeds, and walking humanoid dragonfolk into the game

Banshee

Agreed.
People forget that humans and elves are different species.
Humans need 7,8 or 9 years to even be able to defend themselves from dangers, at least to recognize the danger and run away.
An 8 or 9 years old dog is already and old adult dog.

A 17 years old human beating down a 70 years old elf is no more silly than a 3 years old dog chasing a scared 30 years old human on the street.

Are humans retarded?
If a dog could think he would answer: WHOOF WHOOF!

 

[Banshee16]

I know what you mean. I'm 5.11 and 140 pounds. Its almost as if the majority of gamers were fat.... AH HA, the popularity of dwarves makes perfect sense now.

I'd suspect that the majority (though not all) of the gamers posting on these boards are in North America....I think the reticence to accept the weight thing is simply because of the increasing size of north american culture. You kind of stop noticing it at after a while...though when I went to continental europe, it reminded me of how big people back home are.

I think by your standards, I'm probably big, at 5'9" and 180. Used to be 162, but office job, inadequate exercise, etc. But against what I see around me sometimes, most think I'm fairly small.

I think that a race like elves could have lighter bones, faster metabolism, etc. I know guys who could probably polish off a few burgers a day, and not gain any weight. It just doesn't seem to stick to them.

Banshee

 

[Destil]

The entire problem with 3E/3.5 was that there are too MANY bonuses.

...

(assuming a SWSE system and assuming he can get both of these).

Actually, this is a pretty good indication that there's some significant changes to the skill system from SWSE. In Saga racial bonuses to a a skill are always either a conditional bonus feat of Skill Focus (if you are trained in the skill you get Skill Focus for free) or a auto-reroll of the skill each time, taking the better (mostly for movement skills like Swim for an aquatic race). So I wouldn't go throwing around thoes numbers just yet...

 

[med stud]

EDIT: Post removed due to being off topic.

 

[Piratecat]

Let's focus back on elves and away from weight/BMI, please.

 

[Voss]

Another assumption we have to take a closer look at. We know in 4e there will be less "save or suck spells", at least as far as save or dies. Further, combats are expected to take more rounds to accomplish. Therefore, it makes sense that the surprise round is less important than it once was. In that respect, initiative plays less of a role. So even if the elf goes on surprise round often, it likely will not make as big an impact as you would expect.

Uh. We've already had a look a powers that do double damage straight out of the gate. If you can consistently win the surprise round, you're at a major advantage. If you've got two such powers and can consistently win surprise and initiative, you've got the combat pretty much locked up.

there aren't that many assumptions involved.

 

[Asmor]

Bah, these magical D&D-worlds are far more advanced than we ever could be. They can tap upon powers to travel to alternate realities, change time, tele-transport, have far superior medical techniques with which they can even bring back dead people, can grow food instantly, and destroy worlds in an instant, cause tidal waves, and create viable offsprings with alien creatures. Their only problem, like upon our world, is the distribution of power and ressources.
But everytime some mage-goons stick together to do something good, they create uber-magical empires that can do things that defy anything we ever accomplished, like floating cities, never-ending food and drinks, magical automaton slaves and such.

It's worth noting that, in all likelihood, we're far below our potential technology level...

Technology and learning was increasing pretty steadily (maybe even exponentially?) for quite a long time... and then all of a sudden the dark ages happened. People stopped learning, stuff we already knew was forgotten, and we didn't even stagnate for those hundreds of years; we actually slid back a lot. Finally when the dark ages ended, we had to start back from a lower point than we had already achieved.

So a culture that never had a dark ages (or equivalent) might be far more advanced than us. Actually, that's a plot point in one of the Stargate episodes which I can't think of...

Anyways, back on track, there's something else to consider; namely, the existence of magic somewhat obviates the needs for technology. Not completely, mind you. Technology would be great for the peasants and lower classes, but real technological and industrial development would be spurred by the richer classes, merchants and nobles, who really don't have much of a problem hiring magic users to do things. Cheaper in the short run, and infinitely less risky than investing in some gnome's crazy steam-powered carriage.

 

[KarinsDad]

But when it comes down to it, this isn't because he's an elf, it's because he's a character that is focused on Perception. As has been demonstrated, a human with an equal focus on Perception will have a score within 3 points of the elf.

Partially true.

There are two issues here:

1) If Skill Focus and Skill Training are +5 each, WotC mathematically screwed up. IMHO. At +3, they are probably ok. Or, they are probably ok if Skill Focus does not exist and Skill Training is +5.

2) The Elf is +3 over the same stat human. That's still pretty substantial. If he is a "perceptive class" (i.e. base Wisdom 16 as opposed to base Wisdom 10), that's probably another +3 over his comrades.

Without taking any training at all, the Elf Ranger is (in the ballpark of) +6 over "the Fighter" or "the Wizard".

+6 is huge in a D20 system at first level with absolutely no training. And half of that +6 is racial.

 

[Kintara]

Partially true.

There are two issues here:

1) If Skill Focus and Skill Training are +5 each, WotC mathematically screwed up. IMHO. At +3, they are probably ok. Or, they are probably ok if Skill Focus does not exist and Skill Training is +5.

2) The Elf is +3 over the same stat human. That's still pretty substantial. If he is a "perceptive class" (i.e. base Wisdom 16 as opposed to base Wisdom 10), that's probably another +3 over his comrades.

Without taking any training at all, the Elf Ranger is (in the ballpark of) +6 over "the Fighter" or "the Wizard".

+6 is huge in a D20 system at first level with absolutely no training. And half of that +6 is racial.

Actually, you're counting the Wisdom bonus twice. An elf with a Wisdom 16 personally has a +5, and the bonus from Group Awareness actually shrinks the comparative difference between party members....