Homebrew Elven PrC - Seeking Critique

[Knight_Errant]

Fashionably late?

The mysterious co-author emerges. Yes, I really am a different person (despite the rumors you have heard about khaalis).

First off, let me thank all of you for the input, despite the fact that I was unaware this would be posted here. I have been pleasantly surprised thusfar (though I am still waiting for much of what was mentioned in the brief background paragraph to appear in a WotC sourcebook next month). I will keep my comments brief since I have to be to work shortly and there is a massive hurricane breathing down my neck.

Further background info that may help in any future comments/considerations: The world the stormblade exists in is fairly high magic. It is not a prestige designed for a “general” gish build, such as the Eldritch Knight or Spellsword. It is a cultural-specific prestige class in a sense, having originated at martial schools in the elven lands. The elves have a strong tradition of “gish” warriors, this being a specific example of that tradition.
Keep in mind that I do appreciate all of the comments and criticism that you have all submitted thusfar; as I would like the class to be as balanced as possible while maintaining the central theme: movement in combat.

On BAB and Saves: Bleh. I don’t tend to think that either of these were “overpowering”. I can point out numerous PrC’s who receive similar treatment. The base attack argument holds more weight IMO; either way, I could be persuaded to drop the BAB back to that of cleric and restrict the save bonus to only one good save.
Again, I think these are fairly minor considerations, and I think Khaalis answered that point as I would have. So, good work Khaalis.

As for making the hit die a d6, I can agree to that. The current incarnation has the BAB somewhere in between, which I can live with.

Feats, Skills, and Movement: Here again, Khaalis expressed what I would agree with for feats and skills. The feats are all virtual and the skill points is a matter of taste really—yes, its a lot more than a standard campaign, but we both prefer more skill points and access to more skills.
As for the Fast Movement ability: I wanted the class to emphasize movement in combat and also speed—I felt that was accomplished with a graduated movement rate. Apparently an additional 20’ of move really made several of you nervous.
I cannot say why it did at this point, so if you could provide me with some reasoning why 20’ is too much, but 15’ is ok, I would gladly reconsider my point. Basically, I don’t see how 5’ is going to make that much difference. Again, there are several classes that get Fast Movement (both base classes and PrC’s). Interestingly enough, all of them are pretty high powered and would probably fall under the same level of approximate “power” as the stormblade.

Flavor and the Sickle: Yes, I realize this makes little sense. Originally, the Scimitar/Sickle combo had been for another style which represents Autumn. However, we decided that autumn’s style was more defensive than offensive, so its weapons were altered from the Scimitar and Sickle to the double Scimitar.
If anyone has any suggestions (other than the war shovel) which might work well with the current weapon theme of the elves (curved blades), feel free to post or email me or Khaalis with your ideas. I was considering the Khopesh this morning, though I don’t think rules for it exist anymore, perhaps in the new Arms/Equipment guide?

Flavor and Electricity: This is not something that I had originally intended to include in the style. I like the current incarnation of both of these abilities (good work Khaalis and those that helped), though I must say that Lightning Blade and Blossom of Light were added late in the build. The original idea had more to do with movement and a concealment bonus.
I think requiring the use of spells memorized or slots is a brilliant one however and will make sure that makes it into the final build. This is something I had considered when I was working out the basics of the build, but never went back to. Good suggestion. Look for this in future builds!

Some general comments: I think it might make more sense if the required spell level was dropped to 1st level arcane spells; and required shocking grasp and expeditious retreat. I would prefer to steer away from requiring specific spells, though I think it makes sense in this case.
Overall, I am pleased with what the newest version looks like. Thanks to everyone who offered some suggestions or comments.

PS: Thanks for the .pdf version, its neat.

 

[ARandomGod]

I like the idea of dropping the spellcasting requirements to first level only, and I love the flavor of burning a spell to empower the blades.

I'd probably only require one of the two spells, in order to make it more acceptable to sorc variants. Probably Exp Retreat, as this would enhance the movement aspect of the class, whereas shocking grasp would...

Meh, I could see either way, as that would let them attack unarmed when/if needed.

 

[handforged]

Khallis and Knight_Errant, I like the class a lot, but I think that the electrical abilities still need to be refined a little bit.

Lightning Blades (Su): At 2nd level, the stormblade can temporarily imbue their blades with electric energy as a standard action once per day per stormblade level. To activate this power, the stormblade must sacrifice a prepared spell or spell slot. The lightning blade effect lasts for 1 minute per spell level of the spell sacrificed. Once activated, the stormblade's weapons deal an additional +1d6 points of bonus electricity damage on a successful hit, acting just as the shock weapon enhancement. This ability only applies when the stormblade is wielding a scimitar in one hand and a sickle in the other and only when the stormblade wears light or no armor. They lose all benefits of this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Blossom of Light (Su): At 4th level, the stormblade's lightning blade ability improves to become the blossom of light. This ability remains a standard action usable once per day per stormblade level and lasts for 1 minute per spell level of the spell sacrificed to activate the power. Once activated, the stormblade's weapons deal an additional 1d6 points of bonus electricity damage on a successful hit, and also explodes with electricity upon striking a successful critical hit, dealing an additional +1d10 points of bonus electricity damage on any successful critical hit, acting as a shocking burst weapon enhancement. Subjects dealt a critical hit by a Blossom of Light weapon must also make a Fortitude save (DC 14+ the stormblade’s Intelligence bonus) or be blinded permanently. This ability only applies when the stormblade is wielding a scimitar in one hand and a sickle in the other and only when the stormblade wears light or no armor. They lose all benefits of this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Lightning Blades (Su): At 2nd level, the stormblade can temporarily imbue their blades with electric energy as a standard action once per day per stormblade level. While fighting in the Storm Blade Style, the stormblade may sacrifice a prepared spell or spell slot to add the shocking weapon enchantment to both of their weapons. This ability lasts as many rounds as the stormblade's BAB plus the level of the spell.

Blossom of Light (Su): At 4th level, the stormblade's lightning blade ability improves to become the blossom of light. When a spell or spell slot is sacrificed, each of the stormblade's weapons gain the shocking blast weapon enchantment rather than the shocking weapon enchantment.

This wording is cleaner, and I have reduced the duration of the ability. Take the Arcane Strike feat from Complete Warrior which gives +1 to hit and +1d4 damage per level of the spell to one weapon for one round. This ability gives +1d6 damage to both weapons for multiple rounds, but I think that one minute per spell level was to much. A first level spell would have given a potential +20d6, only counting one hit per weapon per round, where as a 1st level spell with arcane strike potentially gives +4d4 with four attacks in one round. The Arcane Strike attacks would be at a much lower attack bonus because they would be iterative attacks, whereas the Lightning Blades attacks would be near or at full attack.

20d6 or 4d4 which would you pick?

My mechanic still allows for a fairly long duration at higher levels. With rounds equal to BAB + spell level. I think this scaling is better than a flat out minute per spell level.

~hf

edit: I think that adding the "While fighting in the Storm Blade Style..." to each of the entries would streamline the text a good deal.

 

[Arkhandus]

A detailed and reasonable critique

I'll give my advice and critique, but unlike other folks, I'll actually bother to give my measuring stick and reasoning. Firstly, I judge the balance of classes on a modified Fighter with d12 HD, 4 + Int mod skill points per level, and a few extra class skills. This is my yardstick for normal 20-level classes, something versatile in battle, tough, very proficient, and mildly useful outside of combat. For prestige classes, I figure they should have the equivalent of another 2 skill points per level if 5 levels or less, or 4 more per level instead if greater than 5 levels, since 10-level prestige classes and such are move of an investment and commitment that define the character, and they (should, anyway) have serious but fair restrictions on entering/continuing the prestige class.

Now, I'll break down Khaalis' original Storm Blade class down by level. BTW, I have Oriental Adventures, Sword & Fist, etc. but not Complete Warrior, so I do have some context of what Khaalis was using as a baseline.

Requirements: Somewhat tight, more or less similar to Arcane Archer requirements but a little different.

Level 1: d8 HD, +1 BAB, +0 Fort, +2 Ref, +2 Will, 4 + Int mod SP, decent skill list with a moderate number of class skills, two proficiencies, Storm Blade Style, Rolling Thunder. Good Ref save makes up for lack of modified Fighter's good Fort save. Good Will save makes up for lack of modified Fighter's superior hit die. Base attack, skill points, and class skills on par with modified Fighter's. None of the modified Fighter's five non-weapon proficiencies, only one of the modified Fighter's Martial Weapon Proficiencies, only one part of the modified Fighter's general Simple Weapon Proficiency. Short by about seven or eight proficiency feats, basically, made up for in part by Storm Blade Style (one pseudo-feat for +1 attack with both weapons, often to be less important because of two-weapon fighting, one psuedo-feat for a sort of weapon finesse, essentially like two bonus feats due to their restrictions) and Rolling Thunder (+1 dodge is like a bonus feat, since it will be active most of the time and the Dodge feat itself is rather weak with its limitation of 1 enemy per round, the extra +3 dodge when moving full speed is maybe two more feats in equivalency because of its restrictions and how it prevents the use of two-weapon fighting in the same round, while two-weapon fighting is important to the class). Storm Blade lacks the extra 2 skill points at 1st-level in potency/versatility that I would expect of a 5-level prestige class. It also lacks the bonus feat of choice for 1st-level that a Fighter would get. Well-focused and useful, but a bit less potent than gaining 1st-level in the theoretical modified Fighter. 1st-level leaves the Storm Blade about 4 feats short in terms of power and versatility.

Level 2: d8 HD, +1 BAB, +0 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will, 4 + Int mod SP, decent skill list with a moderate number of class skills, +1 effective caster level with one arcane spellcasting class, Fast Movement, Lightning Blades. Ref save boost makes up for lack of modified Fighter's Fort save boost. Will save boost halfway makes up for lack of modified Fighter's superior hit die. Base attack, skill points, and class skills on par with modified Fighter's. Fast Movement bonus at 2nd-level is rather weak and, with its limitations, not as good as a feat where I'm concerned, so it just helps make up for the lack of a superior hit die. Increased caster level and spells per day is about equivalent to one-and-a-half feats, as it will grant between 1 and 3 more spells per day with the chosen class (assuming a maximum character level of 20, a 5th-level Storm Blade, 3rd-level Ranger, 12th-level Sorcerer for example will have access to 7th-level spells at best, though they're more likely to have a balance of levels like SB 5/Rgr 8/Sor 7, so more likely to have spells of only 4th or 5th-level, which are likely equal to 1/2 a feat per spell per day, at most, considering certain factors, such as the usefulness of a 5th-level spell to a 20th-level character fighting CR 20 critters....). Thus, the spellcasting boost at 2nd-level makes up for the bonus feat a Fighter would get to choose at 2nd-level, as well as making up for the 2 extra skill points (in equivalency) a 5-level prestige class should get at this level. Lightning Blades grants the equivalent of an ability worth a +1 enhancement in equivalency, but to two weapons at a time, and it's more potent than the Magic Weapon spell but less so than 2nd-level spell for each weapon, so I figure each daily use of Lightning Blades to be equivalent to a 2nd-level spell (given the ability's limitations, short duration, etc.); the Storm Blade gains 2 uses at 2nd-level, so I consider it worthy of 2 feats then, +1 feat per additional Storm Blade level gained. This makes up for 2 of the feats previously shortchanged on, leaving the 2nd-level Storm Blade about 2 feats weak in terms of overall power and versatility.

Level 3: d8 HD, +1 BAB, +1 Fort, +0 Ref, +0 Will, 4 + Int mod SP, decent skill list with a moderate number of class skills, Fast Movement, Improved Style. Fort save boost makes up for lack of modified Fighter's Ref save boost. Base attack, skill points, and class skills on par with modified Fighter's. Fast Movement bonus at 3rd-level makes up for the 2 extra skill points (in equivalency) a 5-level prestige class should get at this level. Extra daily use of Lightning Blades at this level makes up for one of the feats shortchanged on previously. Improved Style grants a virtual feat, so is slightly less potent than a regular bonus feat, halfway making up for the lack of a superior hit die. The 3rd-level Storm Blade has nothing to make up for the +1 Will a Fighter would get at this level, nor anything to make up for the rest of the modified Fighter's superior hit die, so this is about equivalent to being 1 feat short. This leaves the 3rd-level Storm Blade about 2 feats weak in terms of overall power and versatility.

Level 4: d8 HD, +1 BAB, +0 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will, 4 + Int mod SP, decent skill list with a moderate number of class skills, +1 effective caster level with one arcane spellcasting class, Fast Movement, Blossom of Light. Ref save boost makes up for lack of modified Fighter's Fort save boost. Will save boost halfway makes up for the lack of a superior hit die. Base attack, skill points, and class skills on par with modified Fighter's. Fast Movement bonus at 4th-level makes up for the 2 extra skill points (in equivalency) a 5-level prestige class should get at this level. Extra effective caster level is again equivalent to about 1-1/2 feats, so makes up for the rest of the inferior hit die and the bonus feat a Fighter would get to choose at this level. Extra daily use of Lightning Blades at this level makes up for one of the feats shortchanged on previously. Blossom of Light is an improvement to Lightning Blades, granting benefits of similar potency but without any increase in duration or uses per day, but Blossom of Light only works with critical hits, so is probably equivalent to half a feat per Storm Blade level, maybe a little better. At 4th-level this is equivalent to at least 2 bonus feats. This makes the 4th-level Storm Blade actually about 1 feat more powerful than it should be, in terms of overall power and versatility, but this is probably balanced out by the first 3 levels being just a bit weak.

Level 5: d8 HD, +1 BAB, +0 Fort, +0 Ref, +0 Will, 4 + Int mod SP, decent skill list with a moderate number of class skills, Fast Movement, Eye of the Storm, Style Mastery. Base saving throws, base attack, skill points, and class skills on par with modified Fighter's at this level. Fast Movement bonus at 5th-level makes up for the 2 extra skill points (in equivalency) a 5-level prestige class should get at this level. Extra daily use of Lightning Blades at this level makes up for the lack of a superior hit die, for the most part. Blossom of Light benefits are equivalent to an extra half-feat or so at this level, making up for the inferior hit die and then some. Eye of the Storm allows the Storm Blade to use one of their attacks of opportunity each time a foe misses them in melee, any round that the Storm Blade moves, which means practically every round. It also grants a +1 or +4 bonus on the attack roll with these particular attacks of opportunity. The AoO part is worth at least a feat, if not close to 2 feats, and the AoO attack bonus is likewise worth at least a feat. Style Mastery grants another virtual feat, a bit weaker than a regular bonus feat. This makes the 5th-level Storm Blade about 4 feats more powerful than it ought to be, in total, after considering that the class features up to 4th-level make up for the class' early weakness.

Summary: In the end, I suggest you stretch the class out to a 7-level PrC, at least. Give another effective caster level at 6th-level, move Style Mastery to 6th-level, and move Eye of the Storm to 7th-level. Don't give any further improvements to Fast Movement at 6th and 7th-level. Maybe remove the 5th-level improvement to Fast Movement as well, in which case you should keep Style Mastery at 5th-level. This may balance the class out. Also, Blossom of Light should probably only blind a foe for 1 minute on a successful critical hit, followed by being dazzled 1 minute after that (I mean, in addition to Blossom of Light counting as Shocking Burst; or does Shocking Burst in 3.5 do that blinding effect? hrmm).

 

[Khaalis]

Thanks again for all the input. This will really help making the class fit into the niche and power level we are looking for.

Khallis and Knight_Errant, I like the class a lot, but I think that the electrical abilities still need to be refined a little bit.

Lightning Blades (Su): At 2nd level, the stormblade can temporarily imbue their blades with electric energy as a standard action once per day per stormblade level. While fighting in the Storm Blade Style, the stormblade may sacrifice a prepared spell or spell slot to add the shocking weapon enchantment to both of their weapons. This ability lasts as many rounds as the stormblade's BAB plus the level of the spell.

Blossom of Light (Su): At 4th level, the stormblade's lightning blade ability improves to become the blossom of light. When a spell or spell slot is sacrificed, each of the stormblade's weapons gain the shocking blast weapon enchantment rather than the shocking weapon enchantment.

This wording is cleaner, and I have reduced the duration of the ability. Take the Arcane Strike feat from Complete Warrior which gives +1 to hit and +1d4 damage per level of the spell to one weapon for one round. This ability gives +1d6 damage to both weapons for multiple rounds, but I think that one minute per spell level was to much. A first level spell would have given a potential +20d6, only counting one hit per weapon per round, where as a 1st level spell with arcane strike potentially gives +4d4 with four attacks in one round. The Arcane Strike attacks would be at a much lower attack bonus because they would be iterative attacks, whereas the Lightning Blades attacks would be near or at full attack.
20d6 or 4d4 which would you pick?
My mechanic still allows for a fairly long duration at higher levels. With rounds equal to BAB + spell level. I think this scaling is better than a flat out minute per spell level. ~hf

edit: I think that adding the "While fighting in the Storm Blade Style..." to each of the entries would streamline the text a good deal.

Ok a few comments here for comparison. Personally I feel that Arcane Strike is rather weak, except that it allows a gish to make up for in melee combat what it gave up to get spells. The attack bonus added to the damage bonus is the real balancing factor, along with the fact that there is no way to resist the additional damage short of an anti-magic field. Also, I have never seen a power’s duration based on BAB before.

As for the powers being given, comparing them to Arcane Strike isn’t quite fair. As we all know, class specific abilities are usually more powerful than a ‘standard’ feat. Instead we should look at other abilities that act in the same manner. Currently this was loosely based off of the Bladedancer’s weapon enhancement abilities from Oriental Adventures, but since it seems to be causing issues, we should re-examine the structure of the ability.

The next best idea would be to give a simple and standard class ability that grants a Spell-Like Ability.

We can do this based on the Artificer spell “Lesser Weapon Augmentation”. This is a 2nd level spell that grants Any special weapon ability of up to +1 bonus or 10,000gp value (such as shock or keen) and lasts for 10 minutes per level to one weapon. If we divided that to 2 weapons, it would be 5 minutes per class level (max 25 minutes).

However, when I initially looked at this, unless you are in a dungeon crawl where encounters are stacked upon one another, in most adventures the difference between 1 minute per level and 5 minutes per level means little to nothing. In most cases you only encounter a combat a few times per day and spread out by hours.

My personal take on the power, taking all comments into consideration would be as follows.

Lightning Blades (Sp): At 2nd level, the stormblade gains the ability, once per day per stormblade level, to temporarily imbue their blades with magical energy as per the Lesser Weapon Augmentation spell except as follows. This ability is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity and last for 1 minute per stormblade level. The stormblade's weapons deal an additional +1d6 points of bonus electricity damage on a successful hit, acting as the shock weapon enhancement. This ability only applies when the stormblade is using the Stormblade Style and only when the stormblade wears light or no armor. They lose all benefits of this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor.

OR

Lightning Blades (Su): At 2nd level, the stormblade gains the ability, once per day per stormblade level, to sacrifice a prepared spell or spell slot to temporarily imbue their blades with magical energy. This ability is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity and last for 1 minute per spell level sacrificed. The stormblade's weapons deal an additional +1d6 points of bonus electricity damage on a successful hit, acting as the shock weapon enhancement. This ability only applies when the stormblade is using the Stormblade Style and only when the stormblade wears light or no armor. They lose all benefits of this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor.

In general the trade off is that the Spell-Like ability will last a little longer than the Supernatural version and does not cost spell slots, but DOES provoke an AoO which makes it harder to use in combat.

I'll give my advice and critique, but unlike other folks, I'll actually bother to give my measuring stick and reasoning.

Thanks for all the great detail here.

Summary: In the end, I suggest you stretch the class out to a 7-level PrC, at least. Give another effective caster level at 6th-level, move Style Mastery to 6th-level, and move Eye of the Storm to 7th-level. Don't give any further improvements to Fast Movement at 6th and 7th-level. Maybe remove the 5th-level improvement to Fast Movement as well, in which case you should keep Style Mastery at 5th-level. This may balance the class out. Also, Blossom of Light should probably only blind a foe for 1 minute on a successful critical hit, followed by being dazzled 1 minute after that (I mean, in addition to Blossom of Light counting as Shocking Burst; or does Shocking Burst in 3.5 do that blinding effect? hrmm).

Blossom of Light is a unique power built as follows. We wanted something with just a little more panache than simply Shock & Shocking Burst. So we looked around and saw Thundering. I took the “Subjects dealt a critical hit by a thundering weapon must make a DC 14 Fortitude save or be deafened permanently.” from the +1 Price Thundering and added it to Blossom of Light. Since the effect is simply the use of the Blindness/Deafness spell I swapped out blind for deaf. As for the duration, it is the same as Thundering and the save is very weak. DC14 at the minimum level of 10th level…

However, if it seems too much, I will consider simply reverting back to Shocking Burst and basing it off of the correlating spell-like ability with a longer duration.

Also, what would be your Summary Evaluation of the revised version in Post #6?

Thoughts?

 

[handforged]

I like both of the newer versions of Lightning Blades. Just as a note (I'm being picky), the Storm Blade Style already includes the limit of armors, so it is redundant to relist the restriction.

The benefits of the storm blade style apply only when the stormblade wears light or no armor. They lose all benefits of this combat style when wearing medium or heavy armor.

You could add a line like, "This includes all benefits gained from abilities which require the Storm Blade Style."

~hf

 

[Khaalis]

I thought about the redundancy in the wording but I I felt it was better to be safe than to open loopholes. The example for this is taken directly from the Ranger write-up where at each level of the Combat Style it specifically reiterates the restirictions on the virtual feats. It is also done in various other PrCs as well. Is the redundant use of the limitations really that bad?

 

[handforged]

I guess it isn't too bad, but I think that if you added my proposed line to the original ability that it would close all loopholes. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Like I said, I am being picky.

I would like to see an final version of the class once you have made all of your decisions.

~hf