Homebrew: Wounds

[ravenheart]

Well, originally inspired by 77IM back in the day (among others), I recently started thinking about mechanics for long-time injuries and suddenly I had come up with a fresh wound system, which I think holds true to the style of 4th Edition.

NOTE: I deliberately posted this in a new thread so not to derail P1NBACK's thread.

Now, for the system.

WOUND SYSTEM

1. Whenever a critical hit is scored against a PC, they can opt to suffer a wound. By doing so, the hit is treated as a normal hit instead.

2. Whenever a PC would make a death save, they can opt to suffer a wound. By doing so, the PC becomes stabilized instead.

3. Whenever a PC would take ongoing damage, they can opt to suffer a wound. By doing so, they ignore any ongoing damage that turn.

4. Whenever a hit would make a PC go to 0 hit points or below, they can opt to suffer a wound. By doing so, they may remain at 1 hit point.

5. A PC doesn't die after three failed death saves or at negative bloodied (unless the've raised their death flag, see below). They are instead incapacitated until the end of their next extended rest, after which they suffer a death penalty until they've passed three milestones and at least five days have passed.

6. A PC with three or more wounds must make a saving throw at the end of each of their turns while in combat or during any strenuous activity. On a failure, they become dying. If they already are dying. Each additional wound beyond the third results in a -2 penalty to the saving throw.

7. When a PC suffers a wound, they roll on the minor wound chart to see how and where they were wounded. Depending on the nature of the triggering action, refer to either the physical (P) or mental (M) wound description. If the triggering action was elemental, incorporate it into the wound description.

8. When a PC suffers a second wound, they roll on the major wound chart or turn a minor wound into it's major counterpart (as if they had rolled the same result on the chart). When a PC suffers their third wound (and all subsequent wounds), they roll on the critical wound chart, turn a minor wound into it's major counterpart and roll on the major wound chart OR turn a major wound into it's critical counterpart. NOTE: Only convert your wounds into their lesser or greater counterparts if the triggering action makes sense to the physical or mental quality of the wound.

9. If a wound would cause a PC to suffer a condition, the PC does not benefit from feats, magic items or other features granting them resistance or immunity to the condition caused by the wound.

10. After each extended rest, a wounded PC must make a Moderate DC Endurance check (or an ally can make a Moderate DC Heal check in his place) to treat for EACH wound, with a -2 penalty to the skill roll in case of a Major wound and a -5 penalty to the skill roll in case of a Critical wound. Each wound in addition to the wound being treated incur a -1 penalty to the skill roll. Failure results in the PC suffering another wound (as per nr. 8). A PC that makes the check can turn a wound into a lesser counterpart of itself (i.e. critical -> major -> minor -> cured). This can only be done once per wound, and only once per extended rest (plus one additional time per milestone reached that day).

11. Each day of complete bed rest and proper treatment lessens a single wound by one step (starting from the critical ones, until all are cured). The Remove Affliction can instantly cure any wound where the level of the effect is equal to your level (+2 for a Major wound and +5 for a Critical wound).

WOUND CHARTS

MINOR WOUND CHART[sblock]
1d20 --- Wound description P/M --- Effect
----------------------------------------------------
1 --- "I'ts Getting Worse!" --- roll again on the major wound chart
2-4 --- "Cracked Rib/Leaking Animus" --- take damage equal to half your healing surge value* at the start of each of your turns or lose your minor action that turn, -1 fortitude
5-8 --- "Sprained Leg/Sluggish" --- can't shift or run, -1 reflex
9-12 --- "Bruised Flesh/Disheartened" --- gain vulnerability to all damage equal to half your healing surge value**
13-16 --- "Strained Arm/Pain" --- can't make opportunity attacks, -1 AC
17-19 --- "Concussion/Muddled" --- grant combat advantage, -1 will
20 --- "I got Better!" --- you do not suffer a wound.[/sblock]
MAJOR WOUND CHART[sblock]
1d20 --- Wound description P/M --- Effect
----------------------------------------------------
1 --- "You got a Bad Day!" --- roll again on the critical wound chart
2-4 ---- "Bleeding Gut/Fading Life" --- take damage equal to your healing surge value* at the start of each of your turns or lose your move action that turn, -2 fortitude
5-8 --- "Crippled Leg/Indifferent" --- can't bull rush or charge, can't shift or run, -2 reflex
9-12 --- "Flayed Flesh/Depressed"--- gain vulnerability to all damage equal to your healing surge value**
13-16 --- "Crushed Arm/Agony" --- -2 to attacks, can't take opportunity actions, -2 AC
17-19 --- "Skull Fracture/Anxhiety" --- can't target non-adjacent enemies, grant combat advantage, -2 will
20 --- "Someone Smiles at You!" -- roll again on the minor wound chart
[/sblock]
CRITICAL WOUND CHART[sblock]
1d20 --- Wound description P/M --- Effect
----------------------------------------------------
1 --- "He's/She's a Goner! --- roll twice on the critical wound chart, rerolling a result of 1 or 20.
2-4 ---- "Organ Failure/Gasping Essence" --- take damage equal to your bloodied value* at the start of each of your turns or become dazed until the start of your next turn, -2 to all defenses
5-8 ---"Leg Fracture/Infantile"--- prone, can't stand up, -2 to all defenses
9-12 --- "Necrosis/Defeated" --- gain vulnerability to all damage equal to your healing surge value**, lose all resistances and immunities
13-16 --- "Broken Arm/Catatonic" --- weakened, can't take immediate or opportunity actions, -2 to all defenses
17-19 --- "Aneurysm/Panicking" --- helpless, blinded, -2 to all defenses
20 --- "A Miraculous Recovery!" --- roll again on the major wound chart.
[/sblock]
* this damage cannot be reduced in any way.
** this vulnerability stacks with all other vulnerabilities.

NOTE 2: I refer to the Death Flag (which I've stolen from Raising The Stakes), which I'm planning on implementing alongside these rules, among other changes (more APs etc.). Also note that under this system, a PC (or beast companion) does NOT take a death penalty if the are ressurrected through Raise Dead/Raise Beast Companion.

I'll comment further later, now I need to sleep.

But what do the rest of you think?

 

[Keenberg]

5-8 ---"Leg Fracture/Infantile"--- prone, can't stand up, -2 to all defenses

Do you really want to give a -4 to AC? In the literal reading as you have written, this is what I'm gathering from this one. Prone would give -2, the -2 to all would give -2, for a total of -4

Perhaps rephrase and clarify with:

5-8 ---"Leg Fracture/Infantile"--- prone, can't stand up, -2 to Reflex, Will, and Fortitude defenses.

Same goes with 17-19 on that chart, clarify it with "Reflex, Will, and Fortitude defenses".

Of course, this is assuming you don't want to impose -4 AC penalties.

 

[ravenheart]

Do you really want to give a -4 to AC? In the literal reading as you have written, this is what I'm gathering from this one. Prone would give -2, the -2 to all would give -2, for a total of -4

Perhaps rephrase and clarify with:


Same goes with 17-19 on that chart, clarify it with "Reflex, Will, and Fortitude defenses".

Of course, this is assuming you don't want to impose -4 AC penalties.

Prone doesn't give you an AC penalty. However, it does make you grant combat advantage to melee attacks (and a +2 bonus to defenses vs. ranged attacks from non-adjacent enemies).

But this is actually my intent, those critcal wounds in particular should be bad for you! But for the sake of evening out the odds, perhaps I should make it 3d6 (bell curve) instead of 1d20 (linear) ? Ex.

3d6 - Target area
3-5 - Bad Re-roll
6-7 - Gut/Animus
8-9 - Legs/Instincts
10-11 - Flesh/Spirit
12-13 - Arms/Emotions
14-15 - Head/Persona
16-18 - Good Re-roll

 

[P1NBACK]

NOTE: I deliberately posted this in a new thread so not to derail P1NBACK's thread.

Thanks, bud.

 

[Keenberg]

Prone doesn't give you an AC penalty. However, it does make you grant combat advantage to melee attacks (and a +2 bonus to defenses vs. ranged attacks from non-adjacent enemies).

The combat advantage is what I was referring to. It is basically an AC penalty in reverse, as far as melee attacks go. I cannot reasonably see how a leg fracture is going to affect the ability of your armor to protect against attacks so drastically. The -2 from prone explains your inability to guard due to being sprawled on the ground. An additional -2 doesn't make any sense without further explanation.
If

But this is actually my intent, those critcal wounds in particular should be bad for you!

Agreed, but our heroes are also supposed to be awesome, right? A -4 to AC is going to get someone killed in no time as they'll have no hope of blacking against even standard melee attacks. And putting myself in the player's shoes, that isn't what I'd call awesome.

-2 to all defenses is reasonable.

• Your leg is fractured, so you're on the ground. Combat advantage covers the applicable "penalty"/"bonus" to AC in a graceful manner.
  • -2 to fort is reasonable because you're dealing with the immense pain.
• You're panicking, -2 to reflex is reasonable because you're not paying full attention to combat and therefore not reacting.
  • -2 to will is reasonable because you're obviously not in to the fight as strongly any more.

If you want to tack on another -2 to AC, I'd need some convincing. But this isn't impossible. Here are some ideas:

• Armor has been sundered, and the enemies are attacking the weakspot. (intelligent enemies only.)
• In a panic, the character removes some armor to see their wound and possibly try to treat it. If you go this route, you can make it benefitial (sort of) to them. Full of adrenaline, they use an action point at this time to make a heal check. If successful, they gain a bonus (+2, I'd say) to their next endurance check to heal that wound. Or, they can ignore the -1's from other wounds at that point.

But for the sake of evening out the odds, perhaps I should make it 3d6 (bell curve) instead of 1d20 (linear) ? Ex.

3d6 - Target area
3-5 - Bad Re-roll
6-7 - Gut/Animus
8-9 - Legs/Instincts
10-11 - Flesh/Spirit
12-13 - Arms/Emotions
14-15 - Head/Persona
16-18 - Good Re-roll

I do like this idea. It should apply to all the tables.

 

[ravenheart]

The combat advantage is what I was referring to. It is basically an AC penalty in reverse, as far as melee attacks go. I cannot reasonably see how a leg fracture is going to affect the ability of your armor to protect against attacks so drastically. The -2 from prone explains your inability to guard due to being sprawled on the ground. An additional -2 doesn't make any sense without further explanation.

It's an abstraction, really. It's not necessarily a leg fracture, it could be a temporary paralysis of the lower body for instance. The point is that you are not only lying on the ground (prone), you also have no use of your leg(s) - which would hamper your ability to duck and deflect attacks in a way you are not accustomed to.

Agreed, but our heroes are also supposed to be awesome, right? A -4 to AC is going to get someone killed in no time as they'll have no hope of blacking against even standard melee attacks. And putting myself in the player's shoes, that isn't what I'd call awesome.

Agreed, it's not that awesome. But this mostly hampers melee characters, leaving ranged characters with a relative advantage. Which would be unfair except for the odds that a ranged character could be affected by a "head wound" (impairing targeting, blinding etc.).

-2 to all defenses is reasonable.

• Your leg is fractured, so you're on the ground. Combat advantage covers the applicable "penalty"/"bonus" to AC in a graceful manner.
• -2 to fort is reasonable because you're dealing with the immense pain.
• You're panicking, -2 to reflex is reasonable because you're not paying full attention to combat and therefore not reacting.
• -2 to will is reasonable because you're obviously not in to the fight as strongly any more.

If you want to tack on another -2 to AC, I'd need some convincing. But this isn't impossible. Here are some ideas:

• Armor has been sundered, and the enemies are attacking the weakspot. (intelligent enemies only.)
• In a panic, the character removes some armor to see their wound and possibly try to treat it. If you go this route, you can make it benefitial (sort of) to them. Full of adrenaline, they use an action point at this time to make a heal check. If successful, they gain a bonus (+2, I'd say) to their next endurance check to heal that wound. Or, they can ignore the -1's from other wounds at that point.

I still think it's reasonable that a character unable to use his or her legs make for an EVEN MORE sitting duck (however that is possible) in comparison to a merely prone character (easily tumbling around within their space).

I do like this idea. It should apply to all the tables.

Yes I think so too, I'll see to it when I get the chance.

 

[DanmarLOK]

Since it's 'opt-in' and voluntary it's viable to me. It seems unlikely to me that most players would opt-in except to avoid a dying situation. And honestly even with mediocre healing assuming reasonable battles dying isn't a condition to be feared, getting killed while dying by smart or savage/berserk foes is more fearful.

But as with any punitive add-on system, make it voluntary and it's always worth trying or that's my take on it.

I do think that overall it should be simplified where possible to be of use to most groups as it adds additional bookkeeping which tends to slow things down.

 

[Garthanos]

I am also fond of opt in impairment systems

I am kind of an anti-table kind of guy but embedding which wound in a random table means you don't worry as much about all wounds being equivalent impairment.

You could have one table with a pluses or minuses depending on the amount of damage received (compared to a healing surge) in the attack so that highest end numbers are never reached except when the damage is appropriate and you dont have to worry about what is minor versus what is major... but maybe minor etc is part of the flavor ... hmm never mind.

Looking at a leg wound. We have slowed and immobilized as conditions in 4e (even have cards as reminders) But all this cant X and cant Y seems like its putting extra mechanics in the loop I see you do use some standard conditions in there that is good. (why not slowed and immobilized)

I like the physical and mental differentiations that is a cool bit

Another wound mechanic I seen had something I find particularly Heroic. Aggravating the Wound. Basically the wound effect is a save ends... but its a recurring save ends if you roll low on your first attack in a round.(say 1 to 4 maybe) then the wound is aggravated and the condition returns again ... save ends. That way the low roll is remember-able and the condition it induces becomes a natural part of the 4e combat cycle.

I like remove affliction used directly very nice

Any way interesting stuff.

 

[ravenheart]

Since it's 'opt-in' and voluntary it's viable to me. It seems unlikely to me that most players would opt-in except to avoid a dying situation. And honestly even with mediocre healing assuming reasonable battles dying isn't a condition to be feared, getting killed while dying by smart or savage/berserk foes is more fearful.

But as with any punitive add-on system, make it voluntary and it's always worth trying or that's my take on it.

I do think that overall it should be simplified where possible to be of use to most groups as it adds additional bookkeeping which tends to slow things down.

Yes, I've been giving my proposed revision to the dying mechanics some thought. Although you must admit being incapacitated does render you quite useless until you take an extended rest, and you still have a hefty penalty going after that. But these rules makes it sort of ok for you as the DM to wail on a dying character, performing deadly coup de graces (which the other PCs might try to prevent).

I did try to make it into a few bullets and a couple of easily printable charts not to complicate things. I'll try and create some form of nifty pdf when I'm finished tweaking.

I am also fond of opt in impairment systems

I am kind of an anti-table kind of guy but embedding which wound in a random table means you don't worry as much about all wounds being equivalent impairment.

Yeah, I'm really in it for the randomness. Then you can have the player describe HOW he got wounded after it's been resolved WHERE he/she was wounded.

As I said, I'm thinking about switching to bell curve rolls for the wounds. Initially I though I'd go with 3d6, but now I'm warming towards 4d6-4 (or flat 4d6, or even 2d6 or 2d8). Decisions, decisions.

Looking at a leg wound. We have slowed and immobilized as conditions in 4e (even have cards as reminders) But all this cant X and cant Y seems like its putting extra mechanics in the loop I see you do use some standard conditions in there that is good. (why not slowed and immobilized)

I tried to avoid certain conditions because they felt like traps. I tried using slowed, but it didn't really sync with the escalating lethality of the wound. And immobilized (and restrained) REALLY screw melee characters specifically. Therefore I tried to come up with suitable workarounds from standard conditions; I actually tried to avoid resorting to the "non-blockable conditions"-clause, but in some cases it got too wordy.

Another wound mechanic I seen had something I find particularly Heroic. Aggravating the Wound. Basically the wound effect is a save ends... but its a recurring save ends if you roll low on your first attack in a round.(say 1 to 4 maybe) then the wound is aggravated and the condition returns again ... save ends. That way the low roll is remember-able and the condition it induces becomes a natural part of the 4e combat cycle.

I've seen this too, but I can't say I'm a fan. I think it's penalizing enough that you rolled terribly, punishing you further would feel like badwrongfun. I guess you could try this method but apply it to really good throws as well (as in you give it your all and land that blow, but reopens your bleeding cuts from the fight before).

Any way interesting stuff.

Thanks!

I'm gonna post a revised version as soon as I have the time.

 

[Garthanos]

I've seen this too, but I can't say I'm a fan. I think it's penalizing enough that you rolled terribly, punishing you further would feel like badwrongfun.

I guess you could try this method but apply it to really good throws as well (as in you give it your all and land that blow, but reopens your bleeding cuts from the fight before)

I see what you mean... and I like the idea... perhaps 1-2 and 19-20 that would give it ranges in the critical hit category.