That's too close to Misty Step.
D&D 5E Homebrewing a Cantrip
- Thread starter Chaosmancer
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Chaosmancer
Legend
... Except that isn't the cantrip I'm proposing. The cantrip I'm proposing is Move 30 + 10 ft more for using the cantrip, total of 40.
I don't know why you keep insisting this cantrip involves a full dash action. It doesn't. Your version does, but I think giving a full dash action on top of an attack is far too powerful.
I know Eldritch blast is the most powerful cantrip in the game, but that is because it makes up to four attacks and easily becomes 1d10+cha mod.
Primal savagery is 1d10 acid in melee. Firebolt is 1d10 fire damage. Neither of these is as good as Eldritch blast, because they scale in number of dice, not the number of attacks.
But if you take you entire action to dash, the only way to get an attack is with a bonus action, which is incredibly rare. A cantrip that gives you a dash plus an attack feels too powerful. It is taking something people can do, and making it better than a normal person ever could.
They may be concerned. Are they right? Because I've never seen anyone use Sword Burst, Word of Radiance or Thunderclap, because they tend to find them incredibly dangerous and underwhelming
Chaosmancer
Legend
I'd worry this is essentially a bonus action disengage. Which is pretty darn powerful. It isn't a full disengage, obviously, but this is something that only rogues and monks can currently do.
Chaosmancer
Legend
Yes there is, but that was part of why I was posting this for discussion. does anyone actually think Sword Burst and the other AOE cantrips are good? I've often seen people say that Thunderclap is a bad cantrip, and that the only person who should ever consider Sword Burst is a Bladesinger who is post 5th level and able to attack and use this, and can survive being next to 3 enemies for a turn or two.
So, if these cantrips are generally seen as bad investments, is a 1d6+movement boost okay? Should it be a 1d4? That feels too weak to me, especially considering the later levels giving lots of options to handle the situation of being surrounded by enemies.
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
I've seen AOE cantrips used by some players. Not great (too situational), but not terrible (because when the situation does occur, it's not bad at all!)
Perhaps ray of frost would be a better comparison - 1d8 dmg, one target, has range, a 10 feet movement penalty. So a cantrip that increased your speed by 10 feet and did 1d8 dmg to one target would "feel" right?
CreamCloud0
Hero
Really? I mean sure they’re both bonus action spells focusing on movement but one’s a +10ft movement buff while the other’s a whole 30ft teleport, lots of spells are similar especially when comparing between different levels.
What if the initial burst required a (con?) saving throw to nullify their AoO? And failure instead just gives them disadvantage on the attack? Or if failure imposes disadvantage then if they save they get to make their AoO as usual?
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Yeah, casters in general never want to be in melee, so a spell which only does its job in melee is generally a bad choice. It's not that it's bad to have an AoE effect, it's that it's an option which depends on things going wrong before it can really do its job.
Plus (more to the thread at large than you specifically), there are other AoE cantrips. Word of radiance is a Cleric cantrip that hits everything in range (5') with a scaling d6 radiant damage, with radiant being the second-best type in the game after force. (Force has fewer resistant or immune creatures, but neither has very many; conversely, almost nothing is weak to force, while slightly more are weak to radiant, though again neither is common.) Admittedly, it has a Con save attached, which is the most common "good" saving throw for creatures in 5e. It's still an AoE cantrip, one that functions more or less the same as thunderclap (and thunder damage, unlike force or radiant, is not quite such an uncommon resistance.)
Between thunderclap, word of radiance, and sword burst, I don't really think it's accurate to say that AoE cantrips are verboten. I just think the ones that exist are considered to be sufficient.
Personally, I'd say make it scale off proficiency instead of increasing the number of dice. Its strength is in its consistency, not its heightened potential. So have it do 1d6+Proficiency lightning damage. At maximum proficiency (6), that's slightly less good than 3d6 (3.5+6 = 9.5, average of 3d6 is 10.5), but extremely consistent, always doing 7-12 damage, whereas a comparable 4d4 alternative could do more damage (13-16) but could easily do less (4-6) In return for that consistency, you get 10 feet of extra movement, and the reduced likelihood of OAs. That seems like a reasonably balanced option to me, particularly because lightning is a fairly common resistance and (comparatively) very common as an immunity (almost as common as cold and more than half as common as fire, not counting reprints nor unique NPCs) while being exceedingly rare as a vulnerability (as in, according to my sources, there is only one creature vulnerable to lightning in 5e, and it's specific to Waterdeep: Dragon Heist.)
So yeah. 1d6+Prof damage, some kind of saving throw to avoid damage (I recommend Dex personally, but Con would also make sense), does not scale like other cantrips. Instead, you get +10 feet of extra movement. Enemies who take damage from the spell are unable to make OAs against you. Until the end of your turn, all other OAs made against you have disadvantage.
That sounds like a niche but useful cantrip. It depends on having enemies close to you, or being caught off-sides, to have any teeth. Should you have such a situation, however, it can actually be pretty good. The early damage may be a teensy bit high (since it's 1d6+2 as opposed to 1d8 flat for most other cantrips), but the extremely slow scaling means that difference will quickly even out at high level....and frankly, having a cantrip to protect yourself in the EXTREMELY squishy early levels of 5e doesn't sound like a bad plan to me. Having it last for a single turn, give only +10 movement and not "double after modifiers," and require a regular action to cast instead of a bonus action, makes it clearly inferior to expeditious retreat. And, even better, the two dovetail quite nicely, since the proposed stormwalk cantrip adds a flat movement bonus while expeditious retreat doubles after such modifiers are applied.
I say go for it, Chaosmancer. Let stormwalk be a niche but useful defense-focused cantrip with a unique static-value (heh, punny) damage basis. In a world where things like light (for characters without darkvision), prestidigitation, fire bolt, minor illusion, etc. are jostling for those 2-4 known cantrips at 1st level (depending on what kind of spellcaster you are), I can't see stormwalk being rated very highly simply because its damage type isn't good, it doesn't scale well, and it requires a bad situation (being in melee with multiple enemies) to even be all that useful. Shocking grasp already does this to a single enemy, and does it better, with both better damage and preventing that one target from making any OAs whatsoever until the start of its next turn.
jgsugden
Legend
There are no bonus action cantrips for a reason. They'd be used almost every turn. They stop being a cantrip and become more like a class ability. To me, that is a non-starter. So is the idea of flat damage that does not escalate through either improving damage at certain levels or attaching to weapon attacks.
Thunderclap is a 1d6 5' radius con save (usually viewed as the worst save) with a negative condition (loud) attached to the casting of it. It is balanced and has a place in the game. It may not be hugely popular, but I have seen it used to good effect in games, especially in certain style of games where goblins are still common foes at levels 5 to 10.
If you're going to make another 5' radius cantrip and add abilities to it, you'll need to make it worse than Thunderclap in some ways, and I don't think there is an appetite for it. Going lower than d6 damage is a tough sell, you can't get worse than con saves, so that would require adding more penalties to the use of it. I'd consider the following which essentially gives what the original poster initially wanted, but then adds a lingering penalty like faerie fire:
Stormwalk: 1 Action to cast. S component. 5 ' range. Dexterity Save. Lightning Damage.
You create a burst of lighting around you that crackles brightly for a moment, then fades over a few seconds. Creatures within range must succeed on a Dexterity Saving Throw or take 1d6 lightning damage. You gain a +10 to your movement speed until the end of this turn. Until the end of this turn, creatures that could see you when this spell was cast and were adjacent to you when it was cast have disadvantage on attacks against you. However, between the end of this turn and the end of your next turn, you shed dim light in a 10-foot radius, any attack rolls against you have advantage if the attacker can see you, and you can't benefit from being invisible.
The spell’s damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).
Thunderclap is a 1d6 5' radius con save (usually viewed as the worst save) with a negative condition (loud) attached to the casting of it. It is balanced and has a place in the game. It may not be hugely popular, but I have seen it used to good effect in games, especially in certain style of games where goblins are still common foes at levels 5 to 10.
If you're going to make another 5' radius cantrip and add abilities to it, you'll need to make it worse than Thunderclap in some ways, and I don't think there is an appetite for it. Going lower than d6 damage is a tough sell, you can't get worse than con saves, so that would require adding more penalties to the use of it. I'd consider the following which essentially gives what the original poster initially wanted, but then adds a lingering penalty like faerie fire:
Stormwalk: 1 Action to cast. S component. 5 ' range. Dexterity Save. Lightning Damage.
You create a burst of lighting around you that crackles brightly for a moment, then fades over a few seconds. Creatures within range must succeed on a Dexterity Saving Throw or take 1d6 lightning damage. You gain a +10 to your movement speed until the end of this turn. Until the end of this turn, creatures that could see you when this spell was cast and were adjacent to you when it was cast have disadvantage on attacks against you. However, between the end of this turn and the end of your next turn, you shed dim light in a 10-foot radius, any attack rolls against you have advantage if the attacker can see you, and you can't benefit from being invisible.
The spell’s damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 5th level (2d6), 11th level (3d6), and 17th level (4d6).
the Jester
Legend
I have a cantrip in my campaign that is a bonus action to cast and ONLY gives a +15' speed bonus until the end of the caster's next turn, and it feels powerful, but not too powerful, for a cantrip. Adding damage- especially against multiple targets- and I wouldn't allow it.
This things a lot better than Misty Step actually. It doesn't take any spell slots and you can cast any other spell on that turn still.
The fact that this cantrip would be a no brainer that everyone would take, means it's probably too powerful.
Its a cheaper Disengage than Monks get. Which just doesn't seem right.
