Honestly, if WoTC didn't create it would 4e be D&D?

[Scribble]

"Er why can he make me attack again? Why I can't I just attack again anyway?". The only answer, of course is "Shut up, it's a game, it doesn't have to make sense!". It's not really surprising that that answer is unsatisfying for a number of people.

Seems like that's the "only" answer though if you've decided that's the only answer... I envision the Warlord to be somewhat like a spotter while you're lifting... "DO IT MAN! DON'T BE A BITCH! LIFT IT ONE MORE TIME!"

Or the captain of a team leading the team on a jog. "One more mile guys pick up the pace do it do it!"

Sure, others can do this sort of team boosting... but The Warlord is like the captain of the team. The guy who does that job. The one that trained himself to do it and do it well.

I do think taking 4E as a "cinematic" kind of game, and realizing that some characters thus have "metagame" abilities is important, and not something the PHB necessarily makes clear. It's especially a difference between 4E and previous version of AD&D (though VERY late 3.5E was heading this way, with Bo9S and some of the late classes/PrCs).

I remember older versions iof AD&D... the ones that had thieves being the only ones who had a chance (by the book) to open a lock or climb a wall.

Or Wizards not being able to wear armor or use swords... ever.

I don't think it's a change from the game. It's just a recognition that some of the older ways of "thinking" actually worked.

 

[Particle_Man]

I played from B/X through 1st-4e, and 4e feels like D&D to me. The same excitement (although keyed up a bit, since I deliberately did not buy the DMG or MM this time around, I got pleasantly surprised by those shifty kobolds).

The Warlord at-will ability? Well since it has to be used when the Warlord is in meelee range of the target, it sounds like a souped up Aid Another.

The Ranger as 2 weapon fighter? That was true in 3e too. If a fighter wants, he can take twf as a feat (for the extra damage and defence) but the ranger is better at it.

The Ranger as wise one giving advice? That is a power, and multi-class feats can get anyone that power.

I think the class roles work great to give more of a teamwork feel to the game.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The Warlord requires a little extra suspension of disbelief for many of his abilities, particularly those that cause others to take action.

You betcha. This isn't a problem for everyone, but is really a problem for some.

Sure, others can do this sort of team boosting... but The Warlord is like the captain of the team. The guy who does that job. The one that trained himself to do it and do it well.

Others can't do this sort of team boosting, though. And it doesn't really make sense that they can't do that (or that they can't boost themselves) unless you say: the reason they can't so the Warlord can, and it's just a game, so it doesn't have to make sense that the Warlord can and no one else can, it just has to make a better game, and we think it does, so there.

 

[Scribble]

Others can't do this sort of team boosting, though. And it doesn't really make sense that they can't do that (or that they can't boost themselves) unless you say: the reason they can't so the Warlord can, and it's just a game, so it doesn't have to make sense that the Warlord can and no one else can, it just has to make a better game, and we think it does, so there.

Sorry wasn't clear I guess: I didn't mean others in the game (although multiclassing...) I meant you could argue others should be able to, in real life, do this sort of team boosting. But the warlord is like the team captain. There aren't multiple captains. There's a captain who leads the team, and maybe another guy who's trying to be a captain... (he multiclassed.)

 

[I'm A Banana]

Sorry wasn't clear I guess: I didn't mean others in the game (although multiclassing...) I meant you could argue others should be able to, in real life, do this sort of team boosting. But the warlord is like the team captain. There aren't multiple captains. There's a captain who leads the team, and maybe another guy who's trying to be a captain... (he multiclassed.)

Sure, but that still leaves the metagame all exposed and naked and some people prefer their metagame to at least wear a bikini or something.

 

[Fifth Element]

The only answer, of course is "Shut up, it's a game, it doesn't have to make sense!". It's not really surprising that that answer is unsatisfying for a number of people.

Why is that the only answer? How about "D&D combat has a great number of abstractions, and one of them is that an attack roll does not represent only a single swing of a weapon. The warlord is a tactical specialist and his insights grant you an advantage in combat, which in this case is reflected mechanically as an additional attack roll."

Your answer is only the only answer if that's the only answer you want there to be.

 

[Scribble]

Sure, but that still leaves the metagame all exposed and naked and some people prefer their metagame to at least wear a bikini or something.

I'm not sure I'm seeing how?

Like in real life I could if I really wanted, work hard at it and become a manager... But I'm not really wanting to do that, so instead I'm a level X Strategic Services Analyst...

Some people in the D&D world work hard at being the Warlord team capatin team motivator...

 

[Fifth Element]

And it doesn't really make sense that they can't do that (or that they can't boost themselves) unless you say: the reason they can't so the Warlord can, and it's just a game, so it doesn't have to make sense that the Warlord can and no one else can, it just has to make a better game, and we think it does, so there.

No, that's not the only way it makes sense. Some people have the ability to be truly inspiring. Others don't. Warlords do. Why is that hard? (Rangers have the ability to be great archers. Same deal.)

Just like in 3E. Not everyone with Perform (poetry) can produce in-game mechanical effects with the skill. Bards can, because they're really good at it.

In 4E, warlords are the ones who get the mechanical benefits. Other characters can be leaderish if they like, but the in-game mechanics won't necessarily support it. So it goes in a class-based system.

 

[Fifth Element]

Some people in the D&D world work hard at being the Warlord team capatin team motivator...

Exactly. Many people insist on interpreting all warlords as drill sergeants (which works for some warlords at least). Do you not think that drill sergeants need training and specialized knowledge to be able to do what they do? Of course they do. Some people have greater natural aptitude for it (like most anything else), but drill sergeants don't spring forth from whole cloth. They learn their trade, like anyone else.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Some people in the D&D world work hard at being the Warlord team capatin team motivator...

Sure, but if I have these reserves in me, why can't I call them up without some jerkbag screaming at me? If I have the time to make an extra attack or move an extra 5 feet, why can't I just do it, instead of having some guy tell me to do it?

Is my heroic character that lazy?

But perhaps this is more of a "magic flavor" issue than anything else. I can imagine breaking the rules of physics, time, and space in order to enable me to move around or swing my sword again. I can't really imagine suddenly realizing I could run ten feet just because some dude tells me to, when I couldn't do it before.