Honestly - What is Eragon?

[Olgar Shiverstone]

There is a bit of a cliffhanger in the series (I don't recall specifically if it was book 1 or 2) ... but that cliffhanger can be spoiled by watching The Empire Strikes Back.

The series should be subtitled: Eragon: Where Good Fantasy Cliches Go To Die.

 

[IcyCool]

So to be clear, if you're unpublished, your opinions are free and clear, but if you've had something published, you have to determine whether the opinion is valid or not?

Not at all. If you appear to be unpublished Joe Schmoe, your opinion, to me, is less valid than someone who is a published writer. You are still welcome to your opinions.

There seems to be a bit of two-stepping here, and I appear to have interpreted what you said entirely correctly. You want to see a list of publications because you suspect that any criticism coming from someone who claims to be a writer is sour grapes.

Or, you know, not. If you claim to be a published writer, and you are provably so, then you have a very informed opinion of the subject, and I do not. As such, I could learn more from your opinion than I could from some random individual. You are, in a sense, identifying yourself as an "expert". I want to see a list of publications so that I can read them, and perhaps learn something. If I have to pay for the material, and the author has been an ass to me, I'll just skip it (as at that point, I've formed all the opinion of them that I care to).

If you need to believe that I said what I did out of some sort of malice so you can feel better about yourself and your opinion, go nuts. It's no real sweat off my back. Arguing on the internet and all that.

My publications:
* "Dragons and Other Extinctions" in Realms of Fantasy, February 1999
* "Glass Beads" in Science Fiction Age, May 2000
* "I am Looking for a Book..." in Shelf-Life: The DreamHaven Bookstore Anthology
* "Why the Elders Bare Their Throats" in Strange Horizons, February 2003
* "No Questions Asked" in Vestal Review, April 2003
* "When She Grows a Soul" in Leading Edge, Winter 2003
* "Injure the Corners" in Amazing Stories, October 2004
* "Release the Knot" in Amazing Stories, December 2004
* "A Duel of Fathers and Sons" in Clash of Steel: The Reluctant Hero, March 2005

"Elders" and "Questions" are both findable online if you go to Strange Horizons or Vestal Review, respectively. I'm proudest of "Injure", "Release", and "Looking for a Book...", but they're a pain to find in print.

Thanks, I'll check these out. You also mentioned you do dialogue for a video game company. What games have you done?

 

[Mark CMG]

NOTHING that someone puts thought and feeling into is EVER "simply crap."

Their *quality* may not be equal, but their *value* is

Speaking in absolutes or making all-or-nothing statements when discussing opinions seldom, if ever, allow you to be correct. Forcing an arguments about semantics by making such statements disallows you to credibly dismiss such tacks.

 

[takyris]

Or, you know, not.

Cool deal. I apologize for misreading you. I blame the sleep debt.

(1800 miles since Tuesday)

Thanks, I'll check these out. You also mentioned you do dialogue for a video game company. What games have you done?

Nothing that's come out yet. I'm with BioWare, and I'm in the fun but frustrating position of working on a game that hasn't been publically announced yet. I did some work for Dragon Age, but they did some massive plot shiftng after I left, and it looks like everything I did is getting cut. (But not for quality-of-writing reasons -- they're looking at putting the plot I wrote, along with some other stuff that got cut for the same reason*, into an expansion pack later.)

* Briefly and without breaking any non-disclosure stuff: an area of the world that was going to be explored in depth is no longer getting explored in depth. I had a plot that was in that area (among others) and was pretty much built off that specific culture, so it couldn't be moved to a different area either tonally (the way people talk) or visually (the place had a lot of area-specific art). Art doesn't have the bandwidth to tackle that area, so it's cut for now, but if there's room in an expansion pack, it'll likely get in.

(And yes, getting cut from the credits sucks rocks. But hey, I'll have writing credits in the expansion pack in a few years after doing no further work...)

 

[Mark CMG]

(1800 miles since Tuesday)

(. . .)

I'm with BioWare

Part of that convention schedule/speaking tour you mentioned in the Off-Topic forum? I trust that went well for you?

 

[Mark Hope]

However, not all works of art are of equal artisitic value, as often measured by collective opinion and whatever other correlated values the group/society places upon them (as when a painting is auctioned or a first edition book is resold or an exhibit is flocked to in great numbers). To ignore general group opinion of the artisitic value of something is to shut oneself off from honing ones own artistic sensibilities. Perhaps not in this case, but sooner or later it is wise to simply admit that some things are simply crap.

Yeah, I'd agree with you here. I say as much in an earlier post about collective subjective opinions determining the value of art, for example. As far as Eragon is concerned, I personally think it's laughably poor.

And this is where you and I may disagree...or may just be thinking differently.

I would say that the judging of its artitstic and creative *quality* (which is generally going to be the same as enjoyment) are subjective. But its *merit* or more specifically *value* is automatic and non-subjective.

My eyes desperately wanted to glaze over the "merit" discussion between Mark Hope and Merlion, but I slogged through it.

Brave man. Have an experience point

 

[Merlion]

Yeah, I'd agree with you here. I say as much in an earlier post about collective subjective opinions determining the value of art, for example. As far as Eragon is concerned, I personally think it's laughably poor.

Perhaps not in this case, but sooner or later it is wise to simply admit that some things are simply crap.

See this is my thing. I simply dont understand how people can DEGRADE something that another person has put thought, feeling, time and effort into. Not just dislike it, not critique it, not just state their opinion about it but DEGRADE and BELITTLE it.

 

[Mark CMG]

See this is my thing. I simply dont understand how people can DEGRADE something that another person has put thought, feeling, time and effort into. Not just dislike it, not critique it, not just state their opinion about it but DEGRADE and BELITTLE it.

That seems to be because you equate degrading the product with degrading the producer. Sometimes the two go hand in hand but it is a separate issue. Losing a game doesn't make all of the losing players losers.

 

[Merlion]

That seems to be because you equate degrading the product with degrading the producer

Your half right. The other half is because I consider it...improper....to degrade the product either, because wether you like it or not, and wether or not it meets the "expert standards" for being a masterpiece or whatever, it still has VALUE simply because of the effort and thought put into it, and because of the enjoyment it gives to those who do enjoy it.

And...

Sometimes the two go hand in hand but it is a separate issue

I tend to see them as always going hand in hand. You might not intend to degrade the producer when you degrade the product, but you still are. Or at least, your degrading and devalueing their time, their effort, and their thoughts.

 

[Mark CMG]

Your half right. The other half is because I consider it...improper....to degrade the product either, because wether you like it or not, and wether or not it meets the "expert standards" for being a masterpiece or whatever, it still has VALUE simply because of the effort and thought put into it, and because of the enjoyment it gives to those who do enjoy it.

Holding up an object as sacrosanct merely because of its existence cheapens the creative process. By your system all things must be valueless because the only way all things can be of equal value is if they hold no value at all since, collectively, some things are seen as having no value.

And...

I tend to see them as always going hand in hand. You might not intend to degrade the producer when you degrade the product, but you still are. Or at least, your degrading and devalueing their time, their effort, and their thoughts.

That's a misconception on your part for which you need to take personal responsibility.