D&D 5E Hopes for the 5E Fighter

Vyvyan Basterd

Adventurer
Meteor swarm takes nine segments to cast, which means it takes 2-3 rounds to cast.

I know it's off-topic and really is moot since it's been a long time since I played AD&D, but could you explain this one to me? How do you get 2-3 rounds for a 9-segment spell? IIRC, a round is 10 segments long so at most the spell should overlap two rounds. I feel like this was one of many rules my group may have misinterpreted back in the day. :)
 

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Gort

Explorer
I was using 3e as a base.

Hell no.

The 3rd ed fighter is complete rubbish compared to the 4th ed one.

The 4th ed fighter can heal himself. The 4th ed fighter can very effectively prevent enemies ignoring him, and punish them if they do. The 4th ed fighter can actually keep up with spellcasters in a fight.

The 3rd ed fighter was naff at all these things. I reckon the fighter was the class they did best in 4th ed out of the whole lot.
 

ChainSawHobbit

First Post
I don't think Fighters having daily powers makes any sense. What can a Fighter do that they can only do once a day? They should have a pool of "power points" that recharge between encounters. What would be At-Will powers cost no points, what would be Encounter powers cost one point, and what would be Daily powers cost two points. Also, Fighters shouldn't half any more than half a dozen powers at a time. This simplifies things.
 

JRRNeiklot

First Post
Hell no.

The 3rd ed fighter is complete rubbish compared to the 4th ed one.

The 4th ed fighter can heal himself. The 4th ed fighter can very effectively prevent enemies ignoring him, and punish them if they do. The 4th ed fighter can actually keep up with spellcasters in a fight.

Yes, and not one bit of it makes any sense.
 

dangerous jack

First Post
My big hope for the fighter is that I can have a player say they want to play either of the following and both be happy:
* a tough guy with a sword
* a tough guy with a sword, who was raised on the mean streets of Calimport and incorporates improvised weapons and martial arts into his attacks, and who wants to be a member of the Order of the Crown
 

WizarDru

Adventurer
The 3rd ed fighter was naff at all these things. I reckon the fighter was the class they did best in 4th ed out of the whole lot.

The 3E fighter could wear heavy armor without wasting a feat to do so. The 3E fighter could use more than one dang weapon and be really good with it.

I like some aspects of the 4E fighter: battlefield control is an aspect my players enjoy. Being able to heal themselves was nice in the perspective of not having to fall back in combat. But the 4E created a fighter who's specialty wasn't actually FIGHTING. She was a meat-shield or a tank, but couldn't deal the damage nearly as well as her 3E counterpart, nor handle nearly as many weapons as well. The 3E fighter is a versatile battle machine, while the 4E fighter is, in many ways, a weaker version of the paladin. The essentials Knight was a step in the right direction, but at the apparent sacrifice of dailies, which usually deliver a players most satisfying powers.

Of the core four in 4E, the fighter suffered the most, I think.
 

JRRNeiklot

First Post
I know it's off-topic and really is moot since it's been a long time since I played AD&D, but could you explain this one to me? How do you get 2-3 rounds for a 9-segment spell? IIRC, a round is 10 segments long so at most the spell should overlap two rounds. I feel like this was one of many rules my group may have misinterpreted back in the day. :)

Yeah, I'm also a little rusty, been playing basic lately, not 1E. There are no segments in Basic.

9 segments, plus the initiative roll. So, theoretically, he can get it off in one round, if he's lucky and rolls well. But he's still going dead last. If he rolls a 6, that's 15 segments, so he'll go on segment 5 on the second round. So 2 rounds, generally, not 3, but my point still remains. If he's careful or lucky, or both, a magic user is stupidly powerful, but it's quite easy to ruin his day. Now,of course, if he plans well, he can be invisible, mirror imaged, etc, to hedge his bet, but he can't do this nearly as often as a 3e wizard. Even mid level spells are a problem because generally speaking, a spell has a casting time equal to it's spell level. There are exceptions, such as the power word spells, but it's generally true. So that cloudkill spell will still go late in the round and possibly on the second round of combat.


Again, I'm NOT suggesting 5e should incorporate segments, just that something needs to be done to reign in spellcasters. Make them work to get their spells off, or introduce a mechanic like WFRP wherin their's a casting roll that can be failed or make it dangerous to cast a spell. Something. Magicing up the fighter is the poorest solution they could have come up with. I play a fighter because I want to deal death with my sword, not magically hold aggro and have wounds spontaneously appear on the enemy because he decides to wack on the thief. 4e may have balanced the classes, but at what cost?
 

DonTadow

First Post
Fixing the fighter is simple, leave him as is and fix the magic system. 3e broke the fighter by making spells too easy to cast. Interrupting a wizard is insanely difficult. You have to ready a partial action to hit him when he begins casting. Even then, he gets a concentration check. This is again something Gary got right. In AD&D, the higher level the spell, the harder it is to get off. Meteor swarm takes nine segments to cast, which means it takes 2-3 rounds to cast. One hit from anything ruins it. You can't even use your dex bonus to dodge, or move at all. Now, I'm not saying 5e needs to go back to tracking segments, but some method of making spells harder to cast simply must be implemented, else the fighter will always be a torch bearer for the wizard. The other option is to give the fighter abilities that break immersion and end up being as magical as the wizard's spells. Then you don't have a fighter, you have a wizard with a sword. A method similar to WFRP could work. Not to mention being insanely fun.
Love this idea, however, how do you make those rounds in between fun for the player playing the wizard. Waiting 3 rounds between turns kind of sucks.

Perhaps give every spell a secondary effect, almost like fireworks bursting through the sky while a meteor is about to come through (at least for big "ritual" like spells). So the wizard deals 1d6 damages to players caught in it until the big gun comes off, and when that does they do hte actual spell.

This solves the problem of the bored wizard player who risks a chance of not even doing anything for 3 turns because his other teammates protect him (and wasting a spell) and doesnt throw the fighter into magic guy with a sword catagory *though i still think that should be an optional tree path for a warrior class*.
 

DonTadow

First Post
My big hope for the fighter is that I can have a player say they want to play either of the following and both be happy:
* a tough guy with a sword
* a tough guy with a sword, who was raised on the mean streets of Calimport and incorporates improvised weapons and martial arts into his attacks, and who wants to be a member of the Order of the Crown
This is why I'm hoping (praying) for a modular class system. No more Monks and Barbarians. LEt me build my own. I want to play a barbarian who has honed a kick-butt martial arts style and has his own custom made brass knuckles he made off the teeth of his first kill.
 

JRRNeiklot

First Post
Yeah, multi-round cast times suck. I think all combat spells should have a maximum of 1 full round to cast. IMO, a casting roll is the way to go. A failed roll should have consequences, from simply, say turning a party member blue for 1d3 days to centering the fireball on the wizard. There's a reason wands of wonder are fun, lol. The chance of failure or catastrophic failure brings dramatic tension to the encounter. The wizard should fail often enough so the fighter's consistency shines, but not often enough to be frustrating.
 

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