Hospitaller balanced?

[Hypersmurf]

I have a player who's interested in having his cleric take the Hospitaller PrC from DotF.

Near as I can see, the Hospitaller gets full cleric spellcasting progression, fighter BAB, and bonus feats at almost the same rate as a fighter. In return, the cleric gives up turning progression and one good save, and needs to take a couple of mounted feats.

Am I missing any drawbacks? For a melee cleric, this seems too good to be true...?

-Hyp.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Templar's pretty much broken, too. The best I can say is if you allow it, inflict role-playing penalties until the player wants to cry.

 

[Artoomis]

Then again, nearly ALL the prestige classes that continue normal spell progression are questionable, at best.

In most cases, you get a slew of new abilities giving up little.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The approach from the player was "Although not all of the 'flavor' description of the class is totally appropriate to the character, the ability progression and feel of the class ARE."

The description of the class suggests that they are stay-at-home types who don't get out much, whereas this is an out-and-about character. And enforcing the Vow of Obedience by having the head of the order say "No, you are not going out adventuring, you have a vigil to spend before the altar!"... well, spoils the point of playing an adventure game, in a way.

I'm loathe to balance class abilities with roleplaying restrictions...

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Then again, nearly ALL the prestige classes that continue normal spell progression are questionable, at best.

Yeah... to date I don't own any of the splatbooks (intend to soon)... but that's the impression I've received...

 

[Crothian]

I feel this class is way to good. I think the BAB should be retracted to cleric progression or something needs to be done to bring it in line.

 

[The Souljourner]

Make sure you enforce the FAQ changes - they don't get bonus domains, they do get turning equivalency, though at -2 levels (in other words, levels after level 2 hospitaler count towards turning caster levels).

Here's my take, given that I made a 20th level character with 10 levels of hospitaler - they are nice, but not spectacular. You give up two of your feats to get in there. Sure, they get bonus feats, but they're all fighter feats. That means you only have 6 feats (if human) to go towards spellcasting. That sounds like a lot, but between metamagic and general spell buffing feats, I was really missing those two feats.

The lay on hands is nice, but not really all that great. How many clerics have room for yet another high stat?

Remove disease - yeah, whatever.

Basically it's fighter BAB and cleric spell progression. And since you can only take 10 levels of it, at best it's +2-3 BAB. That makes the difference of one attack at very high levels, but it's a crappy attack. *shrug* Powerful? Sure. Broken? I don't know.

-The Souljourner

 

[comrade raoul]

I'd disagree. Not only is the class clearly and significantly more powerful than the existing classes, but it's unnecessary. If you want a warrior-priest, play a cleric with a couple of fighter levels. You'll do fine.

 

[BlackRazor]

It would appear that every splatbook had a "broken" ( i use the term loosely" prestige class.

Sword and fist : Ninja of the creshent moon :
(This class became the ninja of the emasculated moon after the erata. It was toned down to thief bab, 1 good save)

Defendef of faith : Hospitalier

Tome and blood : Arcane trickster

Master of wild : Verdant lord

Look at those classes and you will see a pattern...

They all grant the best aspect of 2 different core classes.

Hospitalier is a fighter/cleric, Arcane trickster is a mage/thief verdant lord is a ranger/druid or fighter/druid and the ninja is a fighter/thief.

I must admit that the original ninja was a little bit overboard but the other are simply the new way to play multiclassed character in 3E, allowing you to advance in the primary capabilities of 2 classes at once without getting the shaft for being a multiclassed spellcaster.

Powerfull in many situation ? Certainly . Broken ? Hardly.

 

[Archer]

The biggest drawback to Hospitalier is that you get stuck with 2 weak domains which added to the entry requirement feats make it a no go for my cleric. You lose 2 feats to gain 4 and +2 BAB (enough to get you 4 iterative attacks mind you)

I have time, travel, mysticism and exorcist domains. I would NEVER trade those for fighter BAB in a million years. I have permanency, contingency, fly, true strike, aspect of diety as domain spells. I'm immune to paralysis for a short time (long enough to cast remove paralysis or FoM), have improved initiative, add cha bonus to my saves (and some questionable unpossession power).

Hospitaliers get war and glory with what I consider to be weak abilities and questionable spells.

Sacred exorcist gives me an extra domain (useless mostly) 3 extra turning feats, detect evil ability and permanent consecrate along with dispel evil 3x/day for the cost of a few skill pts, a favored fort save (2 pts) and no wasted feats. I get a little SR penetration against outsiders to boot.

What makes hospitaliers the best class ever?

Its for fighters really. They lose 3 feats and 10 hps for 10 spell casting levels (they only lose 1 feat if they like mounted combat feats or 0 if they make use of the weapon focus feat) I'd guess they would take protection and war domains but they might take healing. Sure, the epic progression is amazing, bonus feat every level just like a fighter and eventually getting up to 9th level spells. The fighter is giving up all the other prestige classes he could have chosen however.

Verdant Lord is good but not unbalanced. You have to commit 2 feats to it if you are druid or ranger. If you are a cleric with the plant domain presumably you have plant defiance and plant control as free domain feats. What you gain is no greater than what you would have gotten as your core class. You trade away 10 levels of turning undead for 13 of turning plants or your druid or ranger abilities for the same. If I were a plant cleric, yes I would like this prestige class but it doesn't have broad appeal. What is more common? Undead or Plants?

There are many prestige classes that are great IF that's the kind of character you want to play but its still a matter of trade-offs. If you want to mix caster and non-caster classes effectively you MUST choose a prestige class.

Windrider is the ultimate in enhanced mounts. Does that make it the best prestige class in MotW?