Viktyr, perhaps you could try this approach: begin with the assumption that most of the adventuring characters in your world will be gestalts (even if one of their classes is an NPC class), then come up with a way to compensate monoclassed characters for their decision to specialize.
[House Rules] Multi-Classing
- Thread starter Viktyr Gehrig
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Viktyr Gehrig
First Post
It seems to me that the biggest portion of this is the 20th level capstone abilities that Paizo gave most of the Pathfinder base classes-- which in games that do not progress beyond 20th level would be effectively denied to multiclassed characters.
I know it's the opposite of what you suggested, but it seems to me that the capstones are a good place to start. Multiclassed characters wouldn't reach the capstones or gain certain class features. Of course, that begs the question of which.
I know it's the opposite of what you suggested, but it seems to me that the capstones are a good place to start. Multiclassed characters wouldn't reach the capstones or gain certain class features. Of course, that begs the question of which.
Starfox
Hero
Just out of the top of my head; how would 2ed multiclassing work straight off with the Pathfinder xp system? Or perhaps with two small modifiers. You have a "budget" of xp you get to split between classes. Opening a new class has a fixed cost (say 3,000 xp). The rest of your xp can be spent any way you like to raise different classes. Levels shared between several classes work as gestalt character levels (that is, you use the best value from each), while levels you only have in one class work just as they do normally?
I suppose the temptation to take just 1-2 levels in many classes would be very strong. Perhaps this would work better as straight 2 ed multiclassing; xp must be divided evenly between all classes. This has the problem that you cannot easily drop or pick up a new class - to multiclass is a full career choice.
Aw well... Just some musings. Do with it what you will. Or perhaps you already have tried this variant?
I suppose the temptation to take just 1-2 levels in many classes would be very strong. Perhaps this would work better as straight 2 ed multiclassing; xp must be divided evenly between all classes. This has the problem that you cannot easily drop or pick up a new class - to multiclass is a full career choice.
Aw well... Just some musings. Do with it what you will. Or perhaps you already have tried this variant?
Starfox
Hero
I believe in the OPs basic premise. A fighter 9/Magic User 8 in 1 ed would be very similar to a gestalt 7/7 wizard/fighter in Pathfinder. I do think that the price should be 1 level, plus one level for each additional class. So a 2 class multiclass would be 2 levels lower, a 3 class multiclass 4 levels lower and so on. And this might still be a tad high.
Remember that a wizard 6/fighter 2 under present multiclass rules has the BAB of a 5th level character and the spellcasting abilities of a 6th level wizard - pretty close to a 2 level loss of ability in each class. Having the level cost be more than 2 is just too much.
Edit: Ops, 2 different replies after each other, with separate suggestions - I am not crazy, I can just see the same problem fro 2 sides.
Remember that a wizard 6/fighter 2 under present multiclass rules has the BAB of a 5th level character and the spellcasting abilities of a 6th level wizard - pretty close to a 2 level loss of ability in each class. Having the level cost be more than 2 is just too much.
Edit: Ops, 2 different replies after each other, with separate suggestions - I am not crazy, I can just see the same problem fro 2 sides.
Viktyr Gehrig
First Post
Yeah, in the end I settled for +2 LA per base class and +1 LA per NPC or Prestige Class, with Prestige Classes being stretched out over 20 levels and having prerequisites removed. (Class abilities are acquired later if they're too powerful for 1st.)
Only problem is that I ended up with a Chameleon, but he's like LA +4 already so I'm not sweating it.
For the heartbreaker I'm working on, I'm going to go back to my original idea of using a separate XP chart for each "XP Factor", which is calculated based on class composition and racial ECL.
Only problem is that I ended up with a Chameleon, but he's like LA +4 already so I'm not sweating it.
For the heartbreaker I'm working on, I'm going to go back to my original idea of using a separate XP chart for each "XP Factor", which is calculated based on class composition and racial ECL.
Returning to this discussion, I had the thought of basically enshrining the concept of "level dips" as a house rule.
Firstly, figure out what 4E-style class category any given PF class would belong to: Leader, Striker, Defender, Controller. (We will not be using power sources.)
Then, at 5th level and every 5 character levels thereafter (10th, 15th, 20th), a PC or NPC gets 1 Level Dip point. Level Dip points accumulate level by level until spent.
One Level Dip point can be spent to gain a free level in a secondary class of the same class category as one's primary class, and this free level does not count as a level for purposes of advancing by XP (though it contributes character level in all other respects). For example, a Rogue 5 can gain a free level in Ranger or perhaps Barbarian. Classes of the same category will synergize more effectively than classes filling different party roles (fighter vs. wizard, for instance).
Two Level Dip points can be spent to gain a free level in a secondary class of a different class category from one's primary class, for example Rogue 10 / Druid 1.
Additional levels can be acquired in the normal fashion (costing XP), and level dips can only be spent on classes which the character has at least two fewer levels than their highest-level (or primary) class/es.
Firstly, figure out what 4E-style class category any given PF class would belong to: Leader, Striker, Defender, Controller. (We will not be using power sources.)
Then, at 5th level and every 5 character levels thereafter (10th, 15th, 20th), a PC or NPC gets 1 Level Dip point. Level Dip points accumulate level by level until spent.
One Level Dip point can be spent to gain a free level in a secondary class of the same class category as one's primary class, and this free level does not count as a level for purposes of advancing by XP (though it contributes character level in all other respects). For example, a Rogue 5 can gain a free level in Ranger or perhaps Barbarian. Classes of the same category will synergize more effectively than classes filling different party roles (fighter vs. wizard, for instance).
Two Level Dip points can be spent to gain a free level in a secondary class of a different class category from one's primary class, for example Rogue 10 / Druid 1.
Additional levels can be acquired in the normal fashion (costing XP), and level dips can only be spent on classes which the character has at least two fewer levels than their highest-level (or primary) class/es.
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