D&D 1E How about a little love for AD&D 1E

Celebrim

Legend
I love the feel and flavor of 1e. Just reading that 1e Identify spell it is so steeped in the sort of numinous weird magic that D&D ultimately lost, where everything comes easy to the player and it all feels like the "push button fireball shooters" we joked about back in the day when we were mocking easily accessible and controllable magic.

But I don't love the rules. And when I say I don't love the rules, I don't mean the sort of esoteric stuff that @Blue Orange mentioned in his earlier post that are IMO actually interesting and endearing - especially when you understand the intention and the context.

I mean rather I dislike the extreme lack of character balance, and the fact that published rules variants (like Unearthed Arcana) only made the problem worse. I dislike from a GM's perspective the lack of unified and functional skill systems for dealing with PvE of every sort that isn't combat, leading to the sort of one off rulings over rules nonsense that shows up most clearly in things like the flash flooding room in Hidden Shrine of Tamochan where the rules on drowning presented are the worst combination of incomplete, fiddly, unrealistic, and unbalanced on top of being essentially marginalized to a particular specific encounter. There was just no consensus in the published text at how to handle characters interacting with the environment, leading to massive headaches as a GM when you were forced to ad hoc those interactions. You didn't have a skill system. You had every encounter with its own set of custom rules that were usually bad in multiple ways. I dislike that you are essentially on your own for figuring out how to run a campaign beyond name level. I dislike that lack of guidelines for creating interesting monsters, and the fact that the designers of high-level monsters largely hadn't figured out how to do that even 10 or 15 years into the edition's existence.

I thought very long and hard about house ruling up my own OSR style version of 1e AD&D because I do have so many good feelings about it. But the more I looked at the problem, the more like 3e D&D the version got, to the point where the effort just wasn't worth the work.

There are things that I miss about the rules though. I miss casting times on spells. I miss weapon vs. AC tables. I miss exponentially increasing XP needed to level up. I miss having a real motivation to collect treasure and explore because 2/3rds or more of your XP was finding loot.

But most of what I miss I find portable between editions. I can in fact play later editions with a 1e feel since a lot of that comes down to setting and preparation.
 

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JAMUMU

actually dracula
Thanks for coming to my defense, but I think the second responder deserves the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure it was meant to crap all over. But I feel you. I'm a Knight of 1e and will defend its honor to the death!
I'm a Fighter for 1e who styles himself after a Knight and begs the DM for breadcrumbs so that I can say with confidence that I'm a knight but they just lead me along and tease me with the possibility of one day riding a real horse!
 


ValamirCleaver

Ein Jäger aus Kurpfalz
If one really likes AD&D 1e, especially with Unearthed Arcana incorporated one should look up Adventures Dark and Deep. It has an optional skill system, a supplement for domain management/high level play, a Cthulhu supplement, and a Mythic China/Wuxia supplement. If one just wishes the new material to use with ones pre-existing 1e or OSRIC rules, supplements for the new rules and new monsters are available too. The publisher also has a version of Castle "Greyheim" (totally not Greyhawk :whistle: ;)). I personally have no connection to the publisher, I just happen to like the books a lot.

“Well, that’s because Adventures Dark & Deep isn’t quite a retro-clone. Almost, but not quite. Adventures Dark & Deep (abbreviated ADD) bills itself as being “based on Gary Gygax’s plans for expanding the game.” So it’s claims to be a clone of neither 1st or 2nd edition AD&D. Instead it is a spiritual successor to AD&D 1st edition, with a distinctly Gygaxian design. Constructed by Joseph Bloch from notes, articles and blog posts by Gary Gygax it claims to be written as what the author believes AD&D 2nd edition might have been if the game’s original creator had not parted ways with TSR some time before the release of second edition.”


The book works under the premise of what would 2nd Edition have looked like if Gary Gygax had stayed at TSR. Joe has taken articles, interviews and discussions and something like an anthropologist pieced it all together to get something new and yet familiar. Unlike the previous book, the Player Manual makes no assumptions that you have AD&D1 or OSRIC. There are some obvious roots in those games, but this is now it’s own thing.”


“The book does capture the feel of old D&D with some interesting twists. None that would trip you up, but still enough to make you go “huh, that is kind of neat”.”


"ADD is, if nothing else, a clone of AD&D 1e with lots of new options and classes. It reads much like 1e to me just more user friendly, which is a compliment. ADD cleans up much of what was broken in Unearthed Arcana (sometimes known as AD&D 1.5) and fixes it.


Much of the draw of Adventures Dark and Deep are the new character classes, which can be easily dropped into any AD&D 1e / OSRIC campaign with little effort. I’ve always felt an affinity to Bards, and Joseph Bloch has an excellent version included. The Jester subclass reminds me of the old NPC class from Dragon Magazine - I remember my sister playing one."


“So: what to say about ADD? Imagine you had collected for an OSR game a rule-set of AD&D that included everything Gary Gygax ever wrote about the game, all the crazy stuff he put in Unearthed Arcana, stuff he put in Dragon, stuff he shared in private thoughts, stuff elaborated from vague ideas about how to remake the AD&D game, just packing as much stuff as Gary Gygax possibly could. Now imagine its not Gary Gygax at all, and just some guy named Joseph Bloch.”


“What we get from ADD is a VERY complete Old-school RPG; I’d dare to say that it is truly more complete a game than AD&D 1e itself. Out of all the various old-school editions, it is most similar to AD&D 1e, since it uses it as its starting point; I’d go as far as to say that more specifically, you’d particularly like this game if you’re a big fan of playing AD&D with Unearthed Arcana and with all kinds of weird ideas culled from old Dragon magazines. What you get in it, in fact, is a very odd variant of 1e with some unusual modifications, enough that it would certainly feel like quite a different game (while still being very recognizably old-school).”
 
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Blue Orange

Gone to Texas
It was a tongue-in-cheek wink at the foibles of a game that I read about endlessly but only rarely got to play. (I did get to play a few of the goldbox series--showing my age here-- but they only had a small fraction of the weird stuff in there.) I assumed most people reading the thread would be 1e fans and hoped to add a few chuckles for people who had spent as much time reading those books as me.

I got my 1st edition DMG as a 12-year-old and it blew my mind. It was covered with some weird painting of a wizard and fighter obviously in over their heads and some city of fable floating over a river of lava. It was so full of bizarre tables, complicated, archaic words like 'fell' and 'weal', and other arcana that seemed to hint at some greater design that it seemed like the closest analog to the spellbooks alluded to in the book. The tables tickled my mathematical side, the fantasy my daydreaming side, and the archaic words my antiquarianism. It seemed like some artifact from a world that was weirder, more complicated, and cooler than the real one.

There was also (now that I'm not kidding around anymore) a lot of very, very valuable stuff for players of later editions. The random table of torture chamber equipment was kind of unnerving (but shouldn't it be?), but there also are lists of gems, games, and forms of government, each of which is an inspiration to the imagination. (What does a gerontocratic magocracy look like?) There are extensive tables of correspondences for plants and gems and a potion miscibility (wanna guess where I learned that word?) table. There are actual moral principles for evil (which resembles Social Darwinism, interestingly enough). Everyone knows Appendix N--but the appendixes run from A, which has rules for playing the whole game by yourself, to P, which has rules for creating a party from scratch. If Gygax or his colleagues thought you might need it, it's in there. Sure, you were supposed to follow the rules...but it's not as if Gygax was going to teleport to your house and bop you on the head for not using the weapon vs armor tables. (Besides, he might teleport into the ground if he did.)

And about Appendix N--we didn't see a list of literary inspirations for another 40 years with 5th edition. But White Wolf, which took storytelling seriously, put it in the back of all their games. It took 40 years to get back to the emphasis on imagination they started with.

And 1e feels dangerous. The catoblepas kills with no save, as do quite a few spells above the sixth level. Demogorgon can send a whole mob after you. High-level magic-users can do terrible damage with their fireballs (damage caps didn't exist yet). Monsters can turn you to stone, and as we're told that might mean pestering some wizard who might drop a geas on you to be depetrified. Something like a sixth of the items will kill you if you try to use them, and notably these include toxic varieties of the major miscellaneous items (remember the cursed versions of the elemental summoning devices?) Stumble into the wrong room or try on the wrong cloak and your beloved character can die...but that's like the real world, isn't it?

1e is like a Breughel painting, full of weird, minute, exuberant detail and intricate byways that lead nowhere or places nobody bothered to pursue since. Celtic Druids and Bards rub shoulders with Chinese (Shaolin) monks and medieval European mercenaries wielding endless lists of polearms and magic items (a small but significant fraction of which were dangerous or deadly to the user) against monsters from Greek, Indian, and Chinese myth and fantasy/sci-fi novels published a few years before. It laid down tropes you see in Japanese computer games made 50 years later (why does Final Fantasy 15 use fire, cold, and electricity? Fireball, Cone of Cold, and Lightning Bolt...the big floating yellow eye is a copyright-friendly reskin of the beholder) and massively-multiplayer online role-playing games (healer, tank, and DPS? cleric, fighter, magic-user). The broad outline of fighter, cleric, magic-user, thief persists years later.

It's what your game looks like after you've added on your all favorite supplements. It's an artifact from the old, weird America, when you mate weird fiction, Westerns, and wargames. It's the Baroque 300 years after it went out of style.
 
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Richards

Legend
No problem, MWLewis - here you go.

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(It's all you need, you know.)

Johnathan
 


Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I've probably played more 1e than any other RPG. My gaming sensibilities are informed by it, and I compare every game I've encountered since to 1e in some way. The feeling of danger and real threat in 1e has never been equaled in my estimation, and that's something I've always wanted out of my gaming.
 

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