D&D 5E How can players counter Mass Suggestion?

[iserith]

This is a good example of why wanting particular outcomes for the emergent story can be problematic.

The DM sets the scene. The players do stuff. The outcome is what we all play to find out. Putting one's thumb too heavily on the scale of the outcome risks creating undesirable complications.

 

[jaelis]

You then say you want to force your players to flee the battle

I suspect the OP accidentally omitted the word "don't" here

 

[DEFCON 1]

I suspect the OP accidentally omitted the word "don't" here

Heh... that would make a little more sense. But I'd wonder then why the NPC was given Mass Suggestion in the first place? An important and powerful NPC probably would have a spell like Mass Suggestion at their disposal just for this possibility-- adventurers show up, get in his grill, then he suggests they all leave before they get hurt. And then they do. That makes perfect sense.

But what wouldn't make sense would be for this NPC to have Mass Suggestion and then use it... but the DM hopes it doesn't work because he doesn't want the PCs to have to run away so he's looking for ways they can counter the spell. Why bother? Either just not have the NPC have Mass Suggestion available (perhaps he already used it earlier in the day and doesn't have it now)... or he just suggests an action that isn't running away?

You don't need to find ways to counter a spell... you just don't need that spell cast in the first place. It seems like we're looking for an answer to an unnecessarily asked question.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Suggestion: jump out the palace window (100 feet up).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

[double post]

 

[jgsugden]

Punish players for having low wisdom? I'm not a fan of that mentality.

D&D is an RPG - a role playing game. Characters play a role in a story. Look to the story to solve these mechanical issues by figuring out what would make for an exciting story...

1.) They could hear of his abilities in advance and have a chance to come up with their own defenses. Silence, counterspells, ambushes, etc...
2.) He could give them a suggestion that they can outsmart by completing earlier than he expects. For example, if he told them to go fetch something he believes to be far away, and the PCs already have it, the suggestion could end early.
3.) Just let it go and have him give them a command that forces them to retreat. Losing a battle, especially in a non-lethal way, is often great for storytelling.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I'd have the NPC Mass Suggest that the PCs "Surrender, drop your weapons, and kneel before me! And, then, um... come peacefully to my holding cells and wait patiently for me to summon you... obviously because I don't want my suggestion to end early... now hurry up!" The few PCs who save can then make a choice to actually carry out the Suggestion, perhaps pretending they were under the effect, or do something brave/dumb.

Perhaps the thief in the group has a bandoleer of throwing knives hidden under his tunic that goes undetected. Just something I heard somewhere.

This is a setup for a fun prison break session while the powerful NPC sets up his intricate Bond Villain diabolical death trap.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Punish players for having low wisdom? I'm not a fan of that mentality.

The OP didn't say "low wisdom", they said "poor wisdom saves". That's not the same thing at all. It's quite possible to have a low wisdom and still have respectable wisdom saves, and if you know your party is weak in that area there are things you can do to counter it.

For the whole party to have poor wisdom saves you must have no: clerics, druids, monks*, paladins, rangers*, warlocks, wizards, elves or gnomes, and no one with the Resilient (Charisma) feat.

That's quite an achievement of itself!


*Okay, so it is hypothetically possible for a monk or ranger to have poor wisdom saves, it's quite unlikely.

 

[Eltab]

The NPC is known to have the ability, it is common tavern talk, and rumor suggests his favorite use is to Suggest "You should not fight me but join me."
(Actually, his favorite use of Mass Suggestion is "Please clean out that mega-dungeon for me.")

 

[jgsugden]

The OP didn't say "low wisdom", they said "poor wisdom saves". That's not the same thing at all...

Forest for the trees... forest for the trees.

What I do not like is the mentality that players should be punished for character design, whether that design results in low wisdom saves, low wisdom scores, or low wisdom skills.

You're telling a great story together. The players are not trying to gain the DM's approval. The DM should not be attacking their 'poor PC design', but instead finding ways to work the design of the PCs into a great story.

This DOES NOT mean avoiding wisdom saves when there are low wisdom saves across the board. Instead, figure out how to make these challenges interesting and fun. See my suggestions above for more...