D&D 5E How cognizant are you of the rules of the game?

[GMforPowergamers]

Personally I'm a "Min-Max the silly builds" guy.

I take an unoptimized offbrand build or concept then powergame it to hell. The nonoptimized choice in the idea allows me to grind for power without feeling like I'm fighting the fun.

Shillelagh rangers, half orc axe-wizards, nekkid barbarians, and Str-based brawny rogues.

yea, this is what I try to do (not always a success) and what I love when PCs do...

example: back in 3.5 I made a dwarven melee combatant (lots of multi classing no class fits to say I was an X) who used daggers as a "Knife fighter"(I think that was one of my prestige class names now that I type it) I was doing better damage then most players and had both the highest AC (only by 1 but still) and second highest HP... could I have applyied as much to a long sword or axe and been better still, YES, but I was still pulling all of my weight plus...

If a PC in one of my games told me they were going to do an odd combo, I would do everything to help... in the much belied short sword/ long sword debate, if I were running a game and 1 PC told another to switch from there short sword to a longsword, I would make sure to drop a +1 shortsword of agile repost in an upcoming treasure, just to help it along...

+1 short sword of agile repost is a +1 weapon that adds +1 initiative, and once per short rest as a bonus action take an extra attack.

 

[Maxperson]

yea, this is what I try to do (not always a success) and what I love when PCs do...

example: back in 3.5 I made a dwarven melee combatant (lots of multi classing no class fits to say I was an X) who used daggers as a "Knife fighter"(I think that was one of my prestige class names now that I type it) I was doing better damage then most players and had both the highest AC (only by 1 but still) and second highest HP... could I have applyied as much to a long sword or axe and been better still, YES, but I was still pulling all of my weight plus...

If a PC in one of my games told me they were going to do an odd combo, I would do everything to help... in the much belied short sword/ long sword debate, if I were running a game and 1 PC told another to switch from there short sword to a longsword, I would make sure to drop a +1 shortsword of agile repost in an upcoming treasure, just to help it along...

+1 short sword of agile repost is a +1 weapon that adds +1 initiative, and once per short rest as a bonus action take an extra attack.

That's not even necessary, though. The difference in damage between a d6 and a d8 in a single battle is trivial. Maybe an 4th to an 8th of a single hit. In a battle with several hits among all party members.

 

[BoldItalic]

"Look, guys, I'm using this mace because some optimized rogues stole my warhammer. Okay? Nothing I could do about it, they were optimized for stealing warhammers."

"Do you want to borrow my spare shortsword? I carry three, just in case."

"No thanks, I'm optimized for fighting skeletons."

"But supposing we don't meet skeletons?"

"We've got to. The DM is obliged to optimize my playing experience by giving me fights that I'm optimized to win."

"Isn't that rather meta-gamey?"

"Yes, and?"

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So I was board and rolled 10d6 and 10d8 to simulate 3 fights..

I got 2,2,2,7,4,1,5,6,3,6 in the d8...I thought it was broke at first
I then got 1,3,2,6,5,3,4,4,3,6

38 from the d8 and 37 from the d6...so 1or difference...

So I did it again same dice...
D8 2,4,4,7,6,8,2,2,3,1. So 39
D6 6,5,5,2,3,3,1,4,5,6. so 40
That time the d6 did better

One more time while editing
D6 2,2,4,6,1,3,4,5,5,3. 35
D8 1,8,7,6,2,2,4,2,3,2. 36

I am starting to think 2 comes up way too often on this die 8...114 total for 30 rolls, and the d6 is 112

If I am a fighter with 1 attack at level 1 and most combats are 3 sounds and I got more often then I miss that is still enough to go from level 1 to level 4... Grand total 2pts diffrent... Does anyone know how many times you need to roll to bring you into the average...

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[BoldItalic]

Does anyone know how many times you need to roll to bring you into the average...

Your d8 rolls are below what would be expected by chance, though not impossibly so, but it looks as if you are rolling a '2' on your d8 much more often than would be expected and that's pulling the total down.

You rolled a '2' ten times in thirty rolls, which is a Z score of 3.2 and that very rarely happens at random.

Are you using a single die, rolled repeatedly, or a whole bunch of dice rolled at once?

 

[Phantarch]

You know, my personal experience (which is statistically a VERY narrow pool, so YMMV) has been that people who don't enjoy optimizing (or the aspect of combing through books to find synergistic rules and comparing statistical outcomes) still appreciate their character being as good as it can be and accept assistance with their character. Several of the people I play with like just coming up with the concept, but then will discuss it with those of us who enjoy optimizing. This sort of falls in line with what was mentioned above of optimizing suboptimal builds, but it usually just falls into asking, "What do you want your character to be and do?" and then offering suggestions that help make that successful. Sometimes people make suboptimal choices because they don't know or don't have the patience to figure it out. Usually, just asking why a choice was made is all that matters. If they have a reason for their character to have done so, leave it be. If it was a choice made from misunderstanding, they usually appreciate having that pointed out and being given options that will better help them realize their character.

A classic example would be a player who wants to play a grappler character, so they take the Grappler feat. Most of the players I know who don't like to optimize would appreciate it being pointed out that this really doesn't help them fulfill their concept, and they'd be better off with...well, about anything.

 

[cmad1977]

Meh. I know the rules fairly well. Well enough that when a situation comes up that I am unfamiliar with we just figure it out quickly at the table and look up the actual rule after the game.

 

[Noctem]

I picked the first option because I don't believe that I need to pick subpar options in order to roleplay my character or vice versa and refluffing exists for a reason. If I want to say I use a mighty waraxe but want the mechanical effects of a greatsword, I'm totally within my rights to refluff it as long as I don't change anything mechanical. I think some of the people posting in this thread are forgetting these facts. There's nothing wrong with knowing how to build mechanically the best character for what you want to achieve, nothing about doing that stops you from also roleplaying however you want or whatever else.

My 2 copper.

 

[Fedge123]

I think all styles are valid, whatever rocks your boat. I've played with heavy-optimization assassins and fluffy role-players and have enjoyed either/or and both in an adventure party. Jerks can be found in either camp too, but thankfully I've encountered those rarely.

As for me, when I'm playing rather than DM'ing, I like to think of the character first before trying to optimize. I find that more fun and challenging. It's my entry-point for getting-into my character and having fun.

For example:

I have a one-armed fighter named 'Krimstar Ironhelm' that I created years ago. I don't remember what possessed me to deliberately create a physically handicapped PC, but I think I was inspired by watching some old Japanese samurai movie, so I went with it. His backstory was that he was a veteran soldier who's shield arm was crushed in a battle against some Ogres. He was forced out of the army because of the amputation and turned his life to adventuring. With only one arm he couldn't use a shield or a bow or two-handed weapons. I had to think about and imagine all the situations in the game and what he (I) could or couldn't do with only one arm. It was very challenging, interesting and fun.
At first our group's "optimizers" (or Powergamers as we call them) rolled their eyes, laughed at me and said, "WTF? Why are you doing that? That's stupid." But over time, you play the game of make-believe, shed blood together, lick your wounds, have fun and bond as a party and players, and if it's good all the characters seem to take on a life of their own.
When we switched DM or world, no one ever said, "Don't bring the cripple", they'd say, "Hey! Can you bring Krimstar next week?"